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Post by leopard32 on Sept 19, 2009 7:51:10 GMT -6
I was interested to watch HLN (Head Line News on CNN for those not familiar with US television) last night which had a significant article on Broom. Only one of the several callers seemed to have any problem with there being a second attempt to execute him.
Sadly what should have started out as a routine low key affair has now become national news for all the wrong reasons.
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Post by wrench on Sept 19, 2009 13:03:52 GMT -6
An interesting legal question presents itself: What idiot came up with requirement be 'quick and painless'? How can any execution method, or any means of incarceration be entirely 'painless'? that most likely would be injected in the DP debate by the anti's.  didn't one of the SCOTUS justices recently say something like: "it's gonna have some pain. it's an execution." i think it was scalia? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2009 13:15:41 GMT -6
An interesting legal question presents itself: What idiot came up with requirement be 'quick and painless'? How can any execution method, or any means of incarceration be entirely 'painless'? that most likely would be injected in the DP debate by the anti's. didn't one of the SCOTUS justices recently say something like: "it's gonna have some pain. it's an execution." i think it was scalia? He and Chief Justice Roberts both said something to that effect in Baze v. Rees And torture was described as a punishment deliberately designed to cause pain, such as disemboweling etc. |
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Post by Rev. Agave on Sept 19, 2009 13:18:03 GMT -6
that most likely would be injected in the DP debate by the anti's. didn't one of the SCOTUS justices recently say something like: "it's gonna have some pain. it's an execution." i think it was scalia? He and Chief Justice Roberts both said something to that effect in Baze v. Rees Yes Janet, that is right. He basically said "this is not surgery; it's an execution." That is not an exact quote, but it is close. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2009 13:20:43 GMT -6
He and Chief Justice Roberts both said something to that effect in Baze v. Rees Yes Janet, that is right. He basically said "this is not surgery; it's an execution." That is not an exact quote, but it is close. Correct! Thank you!  I had that as a signature line for a while |
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Post by brumsongs on Sept 19, 2009 13:57:29 GMT -6
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Post by Californian on Sept 19, 2009 14:28:06 GMT -6
I think that's crap. No matter how you do it, asphyxiation causes some oxygen hunger and anxiety before unconsciousness. For that matter, administration of the lethal cocktail doesn't have to be IV. Intramuscular injections would work as well, they'd just take longer. (Volume might be a problem, haven't checked that out.) |
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Post by Rev. Agave on Sept 19, 2009 14:42:11 GMT -6
I think that's crap. No matter how you do it, asphyxiation causes some oxygen hunger and anxiety before unconsciousness. For that matter, administration of the lethal cocktail doesn't have to be IV. Intramuscular injections would work as well, they'd just take longer. (Volume might be a problem, haven't checked that out.) Bob, what are your thoughts on this article? findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n17_v47/ai_17374449/ |
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Post by brumsongs on Sept 19, 2009 15:19:59 GMT -6
I think that's crap. No matter how you do it, asphyxiation causes some oxygen hunger and anxiety before unconsciousness. For that matter, administration of the lethal cocktail doesn't have to be IV. Intramuscular injections would work as well, they'd just take longer. (Volume might be a problem, haven't checked that out.) There is this method also and bear in mind that Portillo had a British education, by the time he is 20 seconds from death one could mistake him for an American undergraduate. |
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Post by wrench on Sept 19, 2009 15:22:18 GMT -6
I think that's crap. No matter how you do it, asphyxiation causes some oxygen hunger and anxiety before unconsciousness. For that matter, administration of the lethal cocktail doesn't have to be IV. Intramuscular injections would work as well, they'd just take longer. (Volume might be a problem, haven't checked that out.) Bob, what are your thoughts on this article? findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n17_v47/ai_17374449/shallow water black outs hit with very little signs. rebreather divers in swimming pools take the greatest risk. i like the hypoxia idea. i've wondered if a decompression chamber would work. the space shuttle antidote goes right along with that theory. |
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Post by brumsongs on Sept 19, 2009 15:27:59 GMT -6
shallow water black outs hit with very little signs. rebreather divers in swimming pools take the greatest risk. i like the hypoxia idea. i've wondered if a decompression chamber would work. the space shuttle antidote goes right along with that theory. See above. |
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Post by wrench on Sept 19, 2009 15:40:51 GMT -6
shallow water black outs hit with very little signs. rebreather divers in swimming pools take the greatest risk. i like the hypoxia idea. i've wondered if a decompression chamber would work. the space shuttle antidote goes right along with that theory. See above. i did. |
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Post by brumsongs on Sept 19, 2009 15:45:22 GMT -6
Wasn't being chippy we posted around the same time and I thought you would find the video interesting. |
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Post by wrench on Sept 19, 2009 16:19:33 GMT -6
Wasn't being chippy we posted around the same time and I thought you would find the video interesting. that's cool. all's good. i had checked your video link earlier, and again now. i'm just getting random videos. which one are you referring to? |
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Post by brumsongs on Sept 19, 2009 16:29:58 GMT -6
Wasn't being chippy we posted around the same time and I thought you would find the video interesting. that's cool. all's good. i had checked your video link earlier, and again now. i'm just getting random videos. which one are you referring to? It should go through to Michael Portillo being nearly executed in a decompression chamber. I f not go to youtube , put in Portillo execution and you should find it. |
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Post by wrench on Sept 19, 2009 17:27:02 GMT -6
thanks ben. i've seen part of this before. i need to watch the entire documentary.
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on Sept 19, 2009 19:43:31 GMT -6
That might provide a solution, bypassing the problematic veins of many death row inmates who have gained weight since incarceration or were heavy drug users and allow the organs to be used after death. However, many of the proponents of this new idea are inmate supporters and anti-death penalty activists who plan to use it as a delaying tactic. Creating the new method and building a chamber could take years followed by years of delays as inmates challenge the new method. Effectively, adopting a new method would simply lead to a de facto moratorium. |
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Post by rick4404 on Sept 19, 2009 21:20:48 GMT -6
I have a feeling he might get away. Just for the sake of discussion, Gov. Ted Strickland just might have to reconsider his position about commuting Broom's sentence. It might be better for him to commute Broom to life in prison without parole, because that would more or less render the case before U.S. District Judge Gregory Frost as being moot. Some anti-death penalty people in Ohio have already been screaming "double jeapordy" in this case. They're saying the state gets one execution attempt. If it fails, then the prisoner has to have his sentence commuted. I don't see it that way. Broom, by his own admission, said he deliberately dehydrated himself so his executioners would have a much harder time finding a vein in which the shunts would hold. Sheesh if it were that easy, then every condemned inmate who is facing lethal injection would do the very same thing. In other words, Strickland might get backed into a corner on this one where he'll have to swallow hard and commute Broom's sentence, just to mitigate any possible risk to Ohio losing its death penalty statute completely as a result of this court case. I definitely hope Ohio will fight this, but then again, it probably wouldn't surprise anyone to see Strickland (who's an anti, but decides clemency matters on a case-by-case basis as he should) waffle on this and commute Broom's sentence because it would be, to the governor at least, the easiest and most politically-expeditious way out. |
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on Sept 19, 2009 22:29:36 GMT -6
I have a feeling he might get away. Just for the sake of discussion, Gov. Ted Strickland just might have to reconsider his position about commuting Broom's sentence. It might be better for him to commute Broom to life in prison without parole, because that would more or less render the case before U.S. District Judge Gregory Frost as being moot. Some anti-death penalty people in Ohio have already been screaming "double jeapordy" in this case. They're saying the state gets one execution attempt. If it fails, then the prisoner has to have his sentence commuted. I don't see it that way. Broom, by his own admission, said he deliberately dehydrated himself so his executioners would have a much harder time finding a vein in which the shunts would hold. Sheesh if it were that easy, then every condemned inmate who is facing lethal injection would do the very same thing. In other words, Strickland might get backed into a corner on this one where he'll have to swallow hard and commute Broom's sentence, just to mitigate any possible risk to Ohio losing its death penalty statute completely as a result of this court case. I definitely hope Ohio will fight this, but then again, it probably wouldn't surprise anyone to see Strickland (who's an anti, but decides clemency matters on a case-by-case basis as he should) waffle on this and commute Broom's sentence because it would be, to the governor at least, the easiest and most politically-expeditious way out. I see your point Rick, and I realize that allowing his sentence to stand could endanger the whole death penalty system in Ohio, but there is a bigger problem if this allows him to get off death row. If dehydration gets you a one way ticket to LWOP, then won't the other 180 Ohio DR inmates do the same thing? |
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Post by rick4404 on Sept 19, 2009 23:49:09 GMT -6
Just for the sake of discussion, Gov. Ted Strickland just might have to reconsider his position about commuting Broom's sentence. It might be better for him to commute Broom to life in prison without parole, because that would more or less render the case before U.S. District Judge Gregory Frost as being moot. Some anti-death penalty people in Ohio have already been screaming "double jeapordy" in this case. They're saying the state gets one execution attempt. If it fails, then the prisoner has to have his sentence commuted. I don't see it that way. Broom, by his own admission, said he deliberately dehydrated himself so his executioners would have a much harder time finding a vein in which the shunts would hold. Sheesh if it were that easy, then every condemned inmate who is facing lethal injection would do the very same thing. In other words, Strickland might get backed into a corner on this one where he'll have to swallow hard and commute Broom's sentence, just to mitigate any possible risk to Ohio losing its death penalty statute completely as a result of this court case. I definitely hope Ohio will fight this, but then again, it probably wouldn't surprise anyone to see Strickland (who's an anti, but decides clemency matters on a case-by-case basis as he should) waffle on this and commute Broom's sentence because it would be, to the governor at least, the easiest and most politically-expeditious way out. I see your point Rick, and I realize that allowing his sentence to stand could endanger the whole death penalty system in Ohio, but there is a bigger problem if this allows him to get off death row. If dehydration gets you a one way ticket to LWOP, then won't the other 180 Ohio DR inmates do the same thing? This poses a very big problem indeed. Something like this would likely force Ohio into force feeding inmates like Broom and make sure they're hydrated enough so the shunts can be properly inserted. Having to force feed an inmate like Broom to make sure they are hydrated enough so that the executioners will be able to find an inmate's veins more readily could cause far more problems than the state bargained for. You gotta know the ACLU and other anti-death penalty groups would make a big stink out of this, if Ohio were to go down that road. |
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Sept 20, 2009 0:46:56 GMT -6
As Mst points out every inmate will become dehydrated. Hang them  |
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Post by Grey on Sept 20, 2009 11:48:53 GMT -6
As Mst points out every inmate will become dehydrated. Hang them I'm not to sure, maybe someone else can answer this (better) but if a state removes a form of execution i.e. gas chamber and hanging, I don't think they can bring it back without making it a retroactive law. Now if the state did have hanging as an option then he could be hanged . . . but I don't know the legal issues if an inmate chooses to be executed by lethal injection and then has to be hanged |
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Post by Californian on Sept 20, 2009 11:52:03 GMT -6
Some anti-death penalty people in Ohio have already been screaming "double jeapordy" in this case. They're saying the state gets one execution attempt. If it fails, then the prisoner has to have his sentence commuted. 'Fraid not. It's all ready happened. In the 40s, a guy named Willie Francis in Louisiana survived the first attempt to execute him in the electric chair. He took the case all the way to SCOTUS, and lost. The second time, it worked. |
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Post by Grey on Sept 20, 2009 12:01:54 GMT -6
Some anti-death penalty people in Ohio have already been screaming "double jeapordy" in this case. They're saying the state gets one execution attempt. If it fails, then the prisoner has to have his sentence commuted. 'Fraid not. It's all ready happened. In the 40s, a guy named Willie Francis in Louisiana survived the first attempt to execute him in the electric chair. He took the case all the way to SCOTUS, and lost. The second time, it worked. ouch . . . well I'm sure the prosecution will have this case presented to the judge |
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Post by wrench on Sept 20, 2009 12:45:35 GMT -6
Some anti-death penalty people in Ohio have already been screaming "double jeapordy" in this case. They're saying the state gets one execution attempt. If it fails, then the prisoner has to have his sentence commuted. 'Fraid not. It's all ready happened. In the 40s, a guy named Willie Francis in Louisiana survived the first attempt to execute him in the electric chair. He took the case all the way to SCOTUS, and lost. The second time, it worked. in francis wasn't there an electrode issue in that first attempt? and did he say he had the constant taste of peanut butter? |
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Sept 20, 2009 13:26:34 GMT -6
Ive read he tasted peanut butter too. Here's an excerpt from a book about his successful execution:
“Is there anything you’d like to say?” the sheriff asked.
Willie shook his head no. Resweber paused for a moment, in the event Willie might be gathering himself for a final statement. Father Rousseve again came forward, this time with a steel crucifix, which he pressed to Willie’s lips for him to “kiss the cross.” Then, along with the sheriff, Rousseve stepped to the back of the room. Another moment passed. A sudden movement behind him made Willie flinch. Someone pulled something, a hood, maybe, over Willie’s face; the leather mask caught him by surprise. Black and thick, it clung tightly to his face, although a small slit near his mouth made it possible for him to breathe. The man then tightened the gauze crown—soaked in water so that the electricity could travel unimpeded to Willie’s head—and secured it to the chair. Roughly, he attempted to gag Willie’s mouth with a leather band that he strapped to the back of the chair. Willie’s head banged back against the hard wood.
“It hurts me the way you’re doing it,” Willie mumbled.
“It’ll hurt more after a while, Willie,” Captain Foster replied.
Gagged with the leather band, Willie sat in darkness now, the deafening noise of the engine amplifying his terror. Father Hannigan had told him the chair wouldn’t hurt.
Captain Foster crouched over the electrical switchboard resting on the floor, another half-smoked, unlit cigar clamped between his lips. He was waiting for the generator to build to 2,500 volts, the level he wanted for delivering a powerful, fatal surge of electricity. When the needle on the switchboard finally indicated the machine was fully charged, Foster took one final glance at the black boy sitting in his chair.
Outside the jail, Frederick Francis was too agitated to take comfort from those who had gathered around him in support. Down the street at Notre Dame, black schoolchildren continued to pray alongside the nuns, the dull drone of the dynamo within their earshot. Perched on the branches of the giant oak, whites vied for a better view.
“Good-bye, Willie!” Captain Foster’s cruel voice boomed above the rattle of the chair’s noisy engine.
Willie, surprised by the captain’s farewell, tried to say good-bye. But his stutter and the leather band in his mouth prevented it. In a grandiose manner fit for the stage, Foster reached down and slowly pulled the switch.
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Post by rick4404 on Sept 20, 2009 20:38:18 GMT -6
I see your point Rick, and I realize that allowing his sentence to stand could endanger the whole death penalty system in Ohio, but there is a bigger problem if this allows him to get off death row. If dehydration gets you a one way ticket to LWOP, then won't the other 180 Ohio DR inmates do the same thing? I doubt if it will be that easy for Broom, but it sure will prove to be embarrassing for the State of Ohio, as it wrangles with the latest legal challenges. As I said before, if all it takes is for an inmate to dehydrate themselves, then wouldn't every inmate that's facing lethal injection do the same? Broom was also a drug abuser; and as such he's probably got a number of collapsed veins from when he was shooting himself up with herion. Which brings us back to them doing a cutdown in his groin. I understand there are veins down there as large as your thumb. Unless those have even been rendered useless as well from Broom's drug use. Missouri doesn't mess around with a prisoner's arms. The protocol which their Department of Corrections follows for executions at Bonne Terre calls for the cutdown procedure in the groin to be the standard way of establishing the intravenous lines. Ouch!! That's gotta hurt.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2009 0:58:47 GMT -6
They want quick and painless the how about this for their requirement: A bullet fired from a Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle from 2 miles away with the bullet entering the back of his head exiting from the front. He is dead before anyone hears the sonic boom and gun shot.
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Lady
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Post by Lady on Sept 21, 2009 5:19:28 GMT -6
I have a feeling he might get away. I don't see it that way. Broom, by his own admission, said he deliberately dehydrated himself so his executioners would have a much harder time finding a vein in which the shunts would hold. With this happening in my state and all , I have read several articles concerning this execution attempt and never read anything that said he intentionally dehydrated himself . I have actually read the opposite . Do you have any links to the articles that I may of missed that said this ? Thanks in advance . |
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Post by deathcub2000 on Sept 21, 2009 11:21:44 GMT -6
Introduce beheading. It is the most loving way to execute, and it gets the job done quickly. The ultimate cutdown |
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I had that as a signature line for a while
