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Post by ltdc on Jun 17, 2009 16:27:08 GMT -6
I guess he (Obama) was just trying to show the Muslim world that he's going to play fairly, I think will be seeing a lot of this. maybe Obama needs the miranda warning, right to remain silent and consult an attorney. soooo, STFU and get some legal advice before acting
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Post by lawrence on Jun 18, 2009 1:20:33 GMT -6
if we are all in a tiswas about this subject then there is no hope for those in power to sort it. holy cow, what a mess.
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nate
Old Hand
momento mori.
Posts: 544
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Post by nate on Jun 18, 2009 14:12:50 GMT -6
The war on terror is an unwinnable scam that the Republican government siezed on to further American interest and enforce American forgiegn policies, even the very concept of a 'War on Terror' speaks of citizens giving up personal freedom for'Saftey' witch can never be guarenteed anyway, except to a wealthy and Powerful few at the cost of the many...The sooner they drop this and admit it the sooner they can go back to a free America and not the America that it has become. But I'm not American, so its just an opinion.
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Post by Ariel on Jun 19, 2009 17:48:22 GMT -6
I'd say you were being naive in just slagging off the Republicans.
Let's look at the facts.
Ronald Reagan was the most PRO TERRORIST President the US ever had.
Apart from his other contributions to supporting terrorist scum, he basically funded, armed and supported the Taliban.
It was Clinton though who began the relentless assault on liberty in the US which Bush simply continued, under the malign influence of Cheney and Rumsfeld.
The sad truth is that there IS a war on terror and it's being LOST - not because of any lack of firepower, bravery by the troops or even any significant degree of subversion at home.
It's being lost because the authorities didn't know HOW to win the PEACE - and they still DON'T.
Till they get THAT right the war will go on and on and on indefinitely.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 17:56:26 GMT -6
I'd say you were being naive in just slagging off the Republicans. Let's look at the facts. Ronald Reagan was the most PRO TERRORIST President the US ever had. Apart from his other contributions to supporting terrorist scum, he basically funded, armed and supported the Taliban. It was Clinton though who began the relentless assault on liberty in the US which Bush simply continued, under the malign influence of Cheney and Rumsfeld. The sad truth is that there IS a war on terror and it's being LOST - not because of any lack of firepower, bravery by the troops or even any significant degree of subversion at home. It's being lost because the authorities didn't know HOW to win the PEACE - and they still DON'T. Till they get THAT right the war will go on and on and on indefinitely. Are you really as stupid as you sound? I don't think it is possible to be as dense as you appear to be in your posts and still have a straight face. Either your yanking our chain or your a total bimbo.
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Post by Ariel on Jun 19, 2009 18:50:46 GMT -6
I'd say you were being naive in just slagging off the Republicans. Let's look at the facts. Ronald Reagan was the most PRO TERRORIST President the US ever had. Apart from his other contributions to supporting terrorist scum, he basically funded, armed and supported the Taliban. It was Clinton though who began the relentless assault on liberty in the US which Bush simply continued, under the malign influence of Cheney and Rumsfeld. The sad truth is that there IS a war on terror and it's being LOST - not because of any lack of firepower, bravery by the troops or even any significant degree of subversion at home. It's being lost because the authorities didn't know HOW to win the PEACE - and they still DON'T. Till they get THAT right the war will go on and on and on indefinitely. Are you really as stupid as you sound? I don't think it is possible to be as dense as you appear to be in your posts and still have a straight face. Either your yanking our chain or your a total bimbo. Are you really as rude and closed-minded as you sound? I don't think it is possible NOT to consider points of view other than your own and still even PRETEND to be a rational human being. I'm going to bed now but I'll post more details tomorrow. I'll leave you with a few FACTS to see if they can penetrate that hopefully not completely closed mind of yours. It is a FACT that Reagan funded, armed and helped train the Taliban. It is a FACT that he funded, armed and helped train the Contras. It is a FACT that he supported, turned a blind eye to arms sales to and funding of, the IRA. The IRA were so PLEASED with his fund-raising activities that they baked him a special cake to say thank you to Reagan, the terrorist's friend. Clinton really DID launch a relentless war on freedom which Bush continued under the malign influence of Cheney and Rumsfeld. If you can't see that the war on terror is being lost because of the lack of a peace plan and a political strategy then I suggest you get out of your ivory tower more and look at the real world.
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Post by johnbgraf on Jun 24, 2009 20:56:32 GMT -6
This war on terrorism is not the Republicans fault. Its like saying "its the flies fault that shite smells so bad..." if that is the case the both Republicans and Democrates are guilty. I have seen first hand the war on terrorism and have studied some about the Jihad.
Islam = world submission...so wake up and smell the Muslims Miranda because this Jihad is heading your way especially in the UK.
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Post by kingsindanger on Jun 24, 2009 22:53:39 GMT -6
Are you really as stupid as you sound? I don't think it is possible to be as dense as you appear to be in your posts and still have a straight face. Either your yanking our chain or your a total bimbo. Are you really as rude and closed-minded as you sound? I don't think it is possible NOT to consider points of view other than your own and still even PRETEND to be a rational human being. I'm going to bed now but I'll post more details tomorrow. I'll leave you with a few FACTS to see if they can penetrate that hopefully not completely closed mind of yours. It is a FACT that Reagan funded, armed and helped train the Taliban. It is a FACT that he funded, armed and helped train the Contras. It is a FACT that he supported, turned a blind eye to arms sales to and funding of, the IRA. The IRA were so PLEASED with his fund-raising activities that they baked him a special cake to say thank you to Reagan, the terrorist's friend. Clinton really DID launch a relentless war on freedom which Bush continued under the malign influence of Cheney and Rumsfeld. If you can't see that the war on terror is being lost because of the lack of a peace plan and a political strategy then I suggest you get out of your ivory tower more and look at the real world. How can you pursue a peace plan with those who are bent on destruction? Wouldn't such a move only serve to bolster the confidence of the terrorists?
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Post by ltdc on Jun 24, 2009 22:54:09 GMT -6
Are you really as stupid as you sound? I don't think it is possible to be as dense as you appear to be in your posts and still have a straight face. Either your yanking our chain or your a total bimbo. If you can't see that the war on terror is being lost because of the lack of a peace plan and a political strategy then I suggest you get out of your ivory tower more and look at the real world. and speaking of ivory towers(or rose colered in your case) and looking at the real world, what would you suggest for a peace plan for "real world" muzzies who are not interested in peace??
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Post by lawrence on Jun 25, 2009 0:29:49 GMT -6
The war on terror may be a lost cause to some but to others like me and a whole lot of others it is a war that must be fought or everything that we know dear, all our hard fought freedoms would have been for nothing.
There are some things worth fighting for and the freedom to do what the hell you like within the laws of our respective countries is a right. We all should have that right without being oppressed, tortured, terrorized, murdered jailed without trial etc etc. Yes we , our governments are guilty of some of these things but that is the price to pay when fighting an unseen enemy who fund terror and a price to pay when you fight the armed conflict against those who want nothing more then to destroy our way of life.
The alternative does not bear thinking about. In my humble opinion.
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Post by kingsindanger on Jun 27, 2009 2:08:56 GMT -6
In my opinion, if they are captured on US soil, they should be considered as criminals and dealt with in the US courts.
Terrorists captured outside of the US should be enemy conbatants, tried by military, and then if convicted executed at sunrise.
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Post by Donnie on Jun 27, 2009 20:47:56 GMT -6
Let's look at the facts. Ronald Reagan was the most PRO TERRORIST President the US ever had. Apart from his other contributions to supporting terrorist scum, he basically funded, armed and supported the Taliban. That is not a fact. You need to take another look at the history of the Taliban. The Taliban did not exist while the US Congress and President Reagan provided support to the fighters in Afghanistan who were fighting Soviet Communist oppression. The Taliban were formed after the Soviet Army had left Afghanistan. After the Soviet Army left, there was fighting among various groups in Afghanistan. At that point there was no more military aid being provided to anybody in Afghanistan. After years of fighting, the Taliban gained control of most of the country. Their success had nothing to do with Ronald Reagan.
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Post by Donnie on Jun 27, 2009 20:49:54 GMT -6
It is a FACT that he funded, armed and helped train the Contras. That was a good thing. The Contras were fighting against a communist dictatorship.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 29, 2009 1:49:21 GMT -6
Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind i think thats the saying isn't it. But this saying doesnt represent what we are doing there.
Donnie, i don't think that you can place us on the same level as the Russians, do you think that we are the same? we are not. We are fighting two fronts in this against terror, one for the freedoms of the majority of the Afghans and secondly the fight is to stop or curtail those who wish to do us harm. It really is that simple.
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nate
Old Hand
momento mori.
Posts: 544
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Post by nate on Jul 1, 2009 5:06:06 GMT -6
The American will do what they like but Canada need to go its own way on this unwinnable War on Terror. I don't belive in it.
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Post by lawrence on Jul 1, 2009 8:59:12 GMT -6
You would believe it when they blow up *your rear* mate, these scummers sense weakness and they will exploit it at every opportunity they get. They want to destroy our way of life because it threatens theirs. Its threatening to them because you can question things, challenge things and debate things. Woman cant get educated, instead they want them staying in the home looking after the kids and basically being a sex slave and cook. (Some westerners might agree with that one) They don't like it when you want to wear what you like, go where you like and speak as you find, why? because the great Mohammad according to their sick little minds says its wrong, immoral and disgusting. Well these rag heads can kiss my butt. Show me any passage in any religious book that cant be manipulated, twisted and sold falsely to weak minded insecure stupid people and i will show you a lie. They prey on the weak , bully the weak and kill those who stand up for real freedom and democracy. So what do we do about that?, do we do what you suggest, either walk away, berry our heads in the sand and pretend that they wont hurt us. Or do we hunt these scummers down and blow them to shyte. Not really a brain teaser that one is it? I know what i would do. Do unto others as they do to you but do it first.
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Post by Donnie on Jul 3, 2009 15:12:43 GMT -6
Donnie, i don't think that you can place us on the same level as the Russians, do you think that we are the same? we are not. I agree with your closing statement. But I have no idea why you asked the first question.
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Post by Donnie on Jul 3, 2009 15:17:41 GMT -6
Show me any passage in any religious book that cant be manipulated, twisted and sold falsely to weak minded insecure stupid people and i will show you a lie. First Corinthians 13: "Love is patient and kind; it is not jealous or conceited or proud; love is not ill-mannered or selfish or irritable; love does not keep a record of wrongs; love is not happy with evil, but is happy with truth. Love never gives up; and its faith, hope and patience never fail."
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Post by lawrence on Jul 4, 2009 3:17:00 GMT -6
A wonderful passage , i know it but to Islam that can be manipulated and used against us, Love is patient and kind only to true Muslims, It is not conceited or proud so long as you follow Islam for there is only one true god. Thats my point Donnie. Are you getting where I'm coming from. You have to understand the enemy, its not Islam, its the Muslim fundamentalist that use Islam. They use it to there advantage to use against us.
No war for freedom is ever un-winnable, as an ex soldier i know that to be true, you need resilience, strength and fortitude, determination to see things through and learn quickly so that you can pound their *%#*@*. Terrorism must not prevail, It cant. It must not prevail or be allowed to destroy what we all hold dear, our freedom, we must be resolute and steadfast. I also say and mean this, love thy neighbor (enemy), but i also understand and respect the saying "an eye for an eye", (only in terms of military conflict, not in law). We must not show weakness at any time. They will see this and act on it. They will eat at our insecurities, fears and resolve if they smell anything that is weakness to them, they will try to weaken our resolve. We cant and must not let them.
If we do, you girl will be out of work, out of education, beaten if you don't do as the man says, raped whenever he wants you and be treated with Sharia law and there will be nothing you can do about it, you will be back in the stone age, do you want that?. Because They do.
We have a choice, fight or be enslaved. Its that simple. Your choice.
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Post by Donnie on Jul 5, 2009 14:19:24 GMT -6
We have a choice, fight or be enslaved. Its that simple. Your choice. Aye.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jul 6, 2009 13:25:24 GMT -6
Rainbows, puppy dogs and hugs for everyone...
Yeah, right. We, on this board alone, have spent hours and possibly days discussing this topic. It still comes down to the same basic truth. This is indeed a war. It is a war of religious ideology. It was not started by the Republicans, or Pres. Bush, or the Conservatives or the Illuminati for that matter. It was started by a group of people that insisted on forcing their religious views on the world. Those that would not covert were killed; those that stood up were murdered. You do not convince these people with words. They do not seek peace; just the death of all non-believers.
Stand by in protest if you like; I will advocate fighting fire with fire.
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Post by Donnie on Jul 11, 2009 10:14:35 GMT -6
This is indeed a war. It is a war of religious ideology. It was not started by the Republicans, or Pres. Bush, or the Conservatives or the Illuminati for that matter. It was started by a group of people that insisted on forcing their religious views on the world. Those that would not covert were killed; those that stood up were murdered. They also murder those of the same faith and don't care much how many of their fellow muslims they also kill by accident. Remember, one of their religious leaders has formally stated that, in the pursuit of jihad, it is acceptable to kill ten million US noncombatants in one attack. Once they have about ten nuclear weapons from Iran and North Korea, they will use seven on US cities and the rest on Isreal. We should be preparing for that reality. Since I live in Cleveland, I don't have to worry about being a direct victim of the initial attack.
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Post by lawrence on Jul 13, 2009 1:38:50 GMT -6
Cleveland deserves it Donnie, what a hole , only joking , have a little faith in our respective security services. They the terrorists know for a fact that if they do let off a dirty bomb anywhere in the US or Europe they would have lost any support they have internationally and among their own, plus they would reap the whirlwind. They Know it, they would get no quarter and they would be hunted to extinction. They will never have the capabilities to land anything other then a dirty nuke, anyone with any knowledge on nukes can tell you that. If Iran of NK were involved they would be slaughtered and no one would dare come to their aid, NO ONE. Personally, I'm more worried about the little homegrown lunatics with backpacks then anything resembling a nuke.
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Post by Californian on Jul 13, 2009 6:23:14 GMT -6
They will never have the capabilities to land anything other then a dirty nuke, anyone with any knowledge on nukes can tell you that. I disagree strongly. All they need is enough fissile material. There's little about fabricating nuclear weapons that isn't in the public domain.
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Post by lawrence on Jul 13, 2009 8:47:45 GMT -6
Sorry Bob, was talking about the intelligence scenario, i do feel though that unless they have a hostile government is assisting them, no one group could produce a nuke like those used on Japan or since, The technology is too sophisticated not to mention the drop load, tansport & containment capabilities, let alone site designation and targeting. man, thats serious hardware. They would have to be a pretty damned amazing group with strong support financially to organise anything other then a dirty bomb. I do feel that for anything resembling a nuke made with weapons grade material with over a 100,000 kilotonnes detonation couldnt get lost in the world without some intelligence agency finding out, that would be very unusual.
I dont happen to be worried about anything stronger because they would need an awful lot of backup, logistics, support, scientific knowledge and balls, most of these groups are covered dont you think, but i do agree, plan for the worst, hope for the best.
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Post by Californian on Jul 13, 2009 22:31:28 GMT -6
Sorry Bob, was talking about the intelligence scenario, i do feel though that unless they have a hostile government is assisting them, no one group could produce a nuke like those used on Japan or since, The technology is too sophisticated not to mention the drop load, tansport & containment capabilities, let alone site designation and targeting. Don't be ridiculous. That's a nuclear weapon on the end of the recoilless rifle. That's what Fat Man and Little Boy became 10 years later. Why worry about transport? A homemade nuke would easily fit in a shipping container, and we inspect about 1% of those that enter our ports daily, and there are literally tons of weapons-grade fissile material floating around unguarded in the former USSR.
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Post by lawrence on Jul 14, 2009 6:50:44 GMT -6
Do you honestly think that these people have the capabilities to produce a nuke Bob on the scale that destroyed Hiroshima or Nagasaki? Your picture is a good one but thats military expertise and hardware. Where would a terrorist group get the knowledge, the knowhow, the financial backing and the materials to get one made, I just don't think they can without either yours, or ours or other intelligence agencies finding out. They would have to have a hostile nation backing them. We would find out. I don't worry about them getting anything other then a dirty bomb but to build nuke and detonate it somewhere in the west is a pipe dream for them. If they did, then man would they get buttf***ed with no quarter from anyone. The group responsible would be wasted from the face of the earth, the country that assisted would be pummeled and the government taken out. They wouldn't dare. So that leaves a terrorist group, nope I'm not worried in the slightest. Thats not being ridiculous, its being a realist. I'm not saying its impossible but it would be highly unusual if we didnt know what was going on with the nuke material, weapons grade anyways.
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Post by Californian on Jul 14, 2009 7:28:14 GMT -6
Do you honestly think that these people have the capabilities to produce a nuke Bob on the scale that destroyed Hiroshima or Nagasaki? A terrorist nuclear weapon doesn't have to be that large. It just has to be nuclear. From the 1950s. That information, as well as a lot of more advanced stuff, is published by the U.S. government and sold. And the information on bomb-making is freely available on the web, as are textbooks like "the Plutonium Handbook." nuclearweaponarchive.org/Library/Fsswpnpr.htmlLawrence, read the book "One Point Safe." Not only was there a terrorist attack and attempted theft of nuclear weapons on a U.S. Army nuclear weapons depot in Germany in the 1970s, but the book also discusses the undocumented, unguarded existence of literally tons of U-235 (highly enriched uranium) in the USSR. Three Russian sailors also stole a high-yield hydrogen bomb there, which was recovered. Nah. You need a few physicists, a few competent machinists, and 100 pounds or so of U-235. Nothing else. Let me point out that one month before the 9/11 attack, the U.S. was warned about Bin Laden and the airliner scenario and chose to ignore it. The problem with independent nukes is that "mutually assured destruction"doesn't apply. If NK nuked us, they get nuked back. If terrorists detonate a nuke, where do we strike?
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jul 14, 2009 8:17:59 GMT -6
Nuclear material and military technology are available and for sale now. NK was behind the reactor in Syria. Russia is behind the reactor in Iran. The missiles launched by NK were Russian made. NK's current threats are based on the past history of blackmailing the UN and US.
It does not take a leap of faith to raise the level of concern that NK may have already sold some of these materials to one or more terrorist groups. They are cash strapped and the current ploy is not working.
An additional note, Kim doesn't care about his people and I too would be worried about the death bed launch order if I lived Japan or SK.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jul 14, 2009 8:35:39 GMT -6
A homemade nuke would easily fit in a shipping container, and we inspect about 1% of those that enter our ports daily, and there are literally tons of weapons-grade fissile material floating around unguarded in the former USSR. And just to clarify something and help Lawrence sleep a little easier (at least if he is in the US or if the UK has this product on their ships) The USCG deploys the MarFLIR (Marine Forward Looking Infrared) Here is a link - watch the movie www.flir.com/cvs/americas/en/maritime/products/seaflir/Keep in mind this is the SeaFlir a "civilianized" version. The military version is much more sensitive and equipped with additional detectors. Basically, IR allows the USCG to monitor all shipping that comes and goes from our ports and travel in our sea lanes. Bob, you are correct about 1% are physically searched, but all are IR scanned. The ship's manifest is transmitted to the USCG cutter on station and the image is analyzed for anomalies. Everything has a unique IR signature couple that with the additional detectors and you can monitor all containers that come and go. Other companies, L3 specifically, are contracted to install, monitor, analyze and report from land based monitoring stations at the port entries, ports and piers. It is not 100%, but it is a great deal more than 1%. This does not prevent the transport of nuclear material or components across land, or at a point on the coast that may not be actively monitored. You can go back and hide under your bed now.
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