|
Post by bernard on Nov 5, 2015 16:38:45 GMT -6
Not my opinion. Just a fact...
"In Western Europe and its colonies, executioners have often been shunned by their neighbours. This attitude can be observed in numerous novels and films, for instance in Alexandre Dumas, père's The Three Musketeers or in the film La veuve de Saint-Pierre (The Widow of Saint-Peter) in which executioners, who are minor characters, were ostracized by villagers.
...
In Japan, executioners have been held in contempt as part of the Burakumin class (today executions in Japan are not carried out by professional executioners, but by prison guards regularly moved). In "Memories of Silk and Straw", by Junichi Saga, one of the families surveyed in the Japanese village of Tsuchiura is that of an executioner family ("The Last Executioner", P. 54). This family does suffer social isolation, even though the family is somewhat well-off financially.
In the Ottoman Empire, only gypsies could be executioners. Executioners were seen as "damned" people and even their graveyards were separate from public graveyards. There were no inscriptions on executioner tombstones, usually uncarved and unpolished simple rough stones were used. One of the oldest and largest "executioner graveyards" is in the Eyüp district in Istanbul. After the republican revolution in Turkey, executions continued to be performed by gypsy executioners. This situation continued until the abolition of capital punishment in Turkey.
The lack of social shunning for executioners in places like North America may be attributed to the infrequency of executions in modern times and the ease in which prison or judicial officials are able to conceal their daily job duties. This provides anonymity that was not possible when executions were carried out in view of the general public."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executioner
|
|
|
Post by fuglyville on Nov 6, 2015 6:22:28 GMT -6
When you make your living killing people, you can't expect to be loved. And for the U.S., the veil of secrecy around the executioner is a major problem - just as everyone else involved in the judicial process(judges, district attorneys, wardens), they should be held responsible for their deeds.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 6, 2015 19:32:42 GMT -6
That seems a powerful argument to me. People ought to take responsibility for their actions.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 6, 2015 19:35:06 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 6, 2015 20:07:10 GMT -6
That seems a powerful argument to me. People ought to take responsibility for their actions. Yes they should when it is illegal.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 6, 2015 20:16:43 GMT -6
When you make your living killing people, you can't expect to be loved. And for the U.S., the veil of secrecy around the executioner is a major problem - just as everyone else involved in the judicial process(judges, district attorneys, wardens), they should be held responsible for their deeds. Yeah there should be no secrets for undercover cops, FBI or homeland security too. In those countries you mentioned are you sure all agreed every citizen could not like or love the executioner? Painting with a wide brush there. Or was that to protect them from radicals who would kill illegally the executioner? Also in those countries could the public vote on having a DP or not?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 20:23:00 GMT -6
When you make your living killing people, you can't expect to be loved. And for the U.S., the veil of secrecy around the executioner is a major problem - just as everyone else involved in the judicial process(judges, district attorneys, wardens), they should be held responsible for their deeds. Cmon fugly you know that's not true. Think about all the DR inmates that are loved by scumpals such as yourself and they illegally killed people. It appears to me that you blame everyone involved except the pos that started it all, the murdering scum. One of these days I will release my plan to get rid of the DP and watch how all you doogooders respond. I doubt that you would agree but believe me it is pretty much exactly what you want.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 6, 2015 21:07:19 GMT -6
Not my opinion. Just a fact... ... In Japan, executioners have been held in contempt as part of the Burakumin class (today executions in Japan are not carried out by professional executioners, but by prison guards regularly moved). Speaking on this day & age, I read that the majority in Japan are in favor of the death penalty. Look it up yourself, easy to find..
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 6, 2015 21:19:10 GMT -6
Not my opinion. Just a fact... After the republican revolution in Turkey, executions continued to be performed by gypsy executioners. This situation continued until the abolition of capital punishment in Turkey. In this day & age, Turkey today, public opinion now supports reintroducing the DP. Look it up easy to find.
|
|
|
Post by oslooskar on Nov 7, 2015 2:52:25 GMT -6
In this day & age, Turkey today, public opinion now supports reintroducing the DP. Look it up easy to find. They also want to be part of the EU and that is never going to happen if they have a death penalty.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 7, 2015 14:14:00 GMT -6
That seems a powerful argument to me. People ought to take responsibility for their actions. Yes they should when it is illegal. Whether it's illegal or not.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 7, 2015 14:16:39 GMT -6
Not my opinion. Just a fact... ... In Japan, executioners have been held in contempt as part of the Burakumin class (today executions in Japan are not carried out by professional executioners, but by prison guards regularly moved). Speaking on this day & age, I read that the majority in Japan are in favor of the death penalty. Look it up yourself, easy to find.. And yet both here and in Japan the executioner must hide in shame. How can we explain this?
|
|
|
Post by fuglyville on Nov 7, 2015 14:39:02 GMT -6
In this day & age, Turkey today, public opinion now supports reintroducing the DP. Look it up easy to find. They also want to be part of the EU and that is never going to happen if they have a death penalty. There are some good things about the EU - this is one of them.
|
|
|
Post by fuglyville on Nov 7, 2015 14:45:24 GMT -6
Yes they should when it is illegal. Whether it's illegal or not. Something being legal, doesn't mean it's right or moral - both slavery and the Holocaust was perfectly legal according to the laws of that time and place, but they're still tragedies. Point being: If you do horrible things in accordance with the laws of the land, they're still horrible things - and while you can't be prosecuted, you should still be held responsible for your actions by the people. If you can't deal with it, you shouldn't do horrible things - it's really pretty simple.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 7, 2015 19:50:48 GMT -6
In this day & age, Turkey today, public opinion now supports reintroducing the DP. Look it up easy to find. They also want to be part of the EU and that is never going to happen if they have a death penalty. Seems the Turks are lukewarm to joining the EU.
|
|
|
Post by liljessncda on Nov 7, 2015 23:11:17 GMT -6
When you make your living killing people, you can't expect to be loved. And for the U.S., the veil of secrecy around the executioner is a major problem - just as everyone else involved in the judicial process(judges, district attorneys, wardens), they should be held responsible for their deeds. Wow! Executioners should be held responsible for their deeds? What exactly should be their punishment?
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 8, 2015 12:17:34 GMT -6
Whether it's illegal or not. Something being legal, doesn't mean it's right or moral - both slavery and the Holocaust was perfectly legal according to the laws of that time and place, but they're still tragedies. Point being: If you do horrible things in accordance with the laws of the land, they're still horrible things - and while you can't be prosecuted, you should still be held responsible for your actions by the people. If you can't deal with it, you shouldn't do horrible things - it's really pretty simple. Why do you keep mixing mass genocide of millions of innocent people ( no trials no reason, just hate of who is pure & who is not) with homicide? They went on trial, for war crimes.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 8, 2015 16:24:09 GMT -6
Something being legal, doesn't mean it's right or moral - both slavery and the Holocaust was perfectly legal according to the laws of that time and place, but they're still tragedies. Point being: If you do horrible things in accordance with the laws of the land, they're still horrible things - and while you can't be prosecuted, you should still be held responsible for your actions by the people. If you can't deal with it, you shouldn't do horrible things - it's really pretty simple. Why do you keep mixing mass genocide of millions of innocent people ( no trials no reason, just hate of who is pure & who is not) with homicide? They went on trial, for war crimes. His point is that something being legal doesn't make it right.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 8, 2015 17:16:54 GMT -6
Why do you keep mixing mass genocide of millions of innocent people ( no trials no reason, just hate of who is pure & who is not) with homicide? They went on trial, for war crimes. His point is that something being legal doesn't make it right. I do get his so called point. Moot point when it comes to homicides & the DP.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 8, 2015 17:46:50 GMT -6
When you make your living killing people, you can't expect to be loved. And for the U.S., the veil of secrecy around the executioner is a major problem - just as everyone else involved in the judicial process(judges, district attorneys, wardens), they should be held responsible for their deeds. Wow! Executioners should be held responsible for their deeds? What exactly should be their punishment? He said they should be responsible to public scrutiny the same as judges, district attorneys and wardens. The word "punishment" was not used.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 8, 2015 17:47:35 GMT -6
His point is that something being legal doesn't make it right. I do get his so called point. Moot point when it comes to homicides & the DP. Just because the DP is legal, doesn't make it right.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 8, 2015 17:58:35 GMT -6
I do get his so called point. Moot point when it comes to homicides & the DP. Just because the DP is legal, doesn't make it right. Just because you feel it is a wrong does not make you right.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 8, 2015 18:03:44 GMT -6
Just because the DP is legal, doesn't make it right. Just because you feel it is a wrong does not make you right. That's right. What makes it wrong is the possibility of executing innocents. An innocent executed is no different from a person murdered by the state.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 8, 2015 18:47:52 GMT -6
Just because you feel it is a wrong does not make you right. That's right. What makes it wrong is the possibility of executing innocents. An innocent executed is no different from a person murdered by the state. And too many victims when you do gooders f'k up * by state & innocent project)... funny how your type do not care about that. One more citizen murdered is too much.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 8, 2015 18:53:57 GMT -6
That's right. What makes it wrong is the possibility of executing innocents. An innocent executed is no different from a person murdered by the state. And too many victims when you do gooders f'k up * by state & innocent project)... If you don't want people exonerated, take the time to convict them properly in the first place. Not by bribing jailhouse snitches, over-stating the forensics, and coercing guilty pleas via threats. prodp.proboards.com/thread/35795/32-sentenced-death-flawed-evidence?page=1&scrollTo=626718
|
|
|
Post by liljessncda on Nov 8, 2015 18:56:43 GMT -6
Wow! Executioners should be held responsible for their deeds? What exactly should be their punishment? He said they should be responsible to public scrutiny the same as judges, district attorneys and wardens. The word "punishment" was not used. Where does this say "public scrutiny"?
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 8, 2015 19:01:17 GMT -6
He said they should be responsible to public scrutiny the same as judges, district attorneys and wardens. The word "punishment" was not used. Where does this say "public scrutiny"? He said they should be responsible just like judges, district attorneys and wardens. Since we do not punish judges, district attorneys and wardens (except by firing them when they are incompetent) I took that to mean "answerable to the public". Do you disagree with my interpretation?
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 8, 2015 19:25:44 GMT -6
I know all anti's are pure as snow. So are all Defense attorneys. Amazing how they are so flawless. Use no tactics at all. Fact, they have made errors & let killers off to murder again. I provided many links on that fact which is ignored. Guess, by your logic the Facts more victims are slaughtered by a released killer, that is different some how?
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Nov 8, 2015 19:34:56 GMT -6
I know all anti's are pure as snow. So are all Defense attorneys. Amazing how they are so flawless. Use no tactics at all. I'll concede that both sides cheat. Now you give me something. Will you concede that we cannot send men to their deaths on the basis of a process in which both sides cheat?
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Nov 8, 2015 20:13:53 GMT -6
I know all anti's are pure as snow. So are all Defense attorneys. Amazing how they are so flawless. Use no tactics at all. I'll concede that both sides cheat. Now you give me something. Will you concede that we cannot send men to their deaths on the basis of a process in which both sides cheat? No, I won't concede, far more trials the facts are so over whelming ( beyond a doubt) they qualified for the DP. I would only concede on trials that leaves too much to speculation, no hard facts" should never qualify for the DP when any doubt is there. Juries are showing it everyday,they want hard facts the DP is not doled out easily. Bottom line, the DP should always be an option for the obvious " no doubts", a crime that reaches the DP qualifications.
|
|