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Post by nils on May 31, 2014 23:45:52 GMT -6
Goodbye Capital Punishment
Below Graph is from Steven Pinker's Better Angels of Our Nature, and shows the rate of executions declining dramatically - also in the states that still have it on the books, it's mostly used less frequently. Best wishes from Sweden. Nils.
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Post by ltdc on Jun 10, 2014 9:26:32 GMT -6
Nils, when are you going to man up and answer the logical question? if YOU think the death penalty does not prevent or deter further murders, how does prison terms do it? or do you just think all murderers should simply be released? c'mon, I dare ya.
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Post by nils on Jun 15, 2014 14:25:52 GMT -6
Nils, when are you going to man up and answer the logical question? if YOU think the death penalty does not prevent or deter further murders, how does prison terms do it? or do you just think all murderers should simply be released? c'mon, I dare ya. Hi. Murderers should be locked up, just as the vast majority are today ltdc. And when relaesed we better make sure they are unlikely to comitt crime again. How is that best done? Harsh treatmemt and punishment? Best Eurowishes. Nils.
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Post by ltdc on Jun 16, 2014 10:55:18 GMT -6
Nils, when are you going to man up and answer the logical question? if YOU think the death penalty does not prevent or deter further murders, how does prison terms do it? or do you just think all murderers should simply be released? c'mon, I dare ya. Hi. Murderers should be locked up, just as the vast majority are today ltdc. And when relaesed we better make sure they are unlikely to comitt crime again. How is that best done? Harsh treatmemt and punishment? Best Eurowishes. Nils. you still didn't answer the question, HOW is it that we still have murders going on when other murderers are still in jail? if execution does not deter, where are you seeing deterrence here with prison sentences? and what do you mean "WHEN" released.....and "unlikely"? why in God's name would you want to release? you Know, you just don't see gary gilmore re-offending do ya? THAT'S what I call "making sure they are unlikely" to re-offend. stiiiiiill batting a thousand on that, too bad your system cannot provide those stats.
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Post by fuglyville on Jun 17, 2014 5:25:11 GMT -6
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Post by ltdc on Jun 17, 2014 8:28:43 GMT -6
" and for its remarkably low reoffending rate of just 16% " guess you missed the part where OUR executions are 100% recidivism proof.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 17, 2014 9:36:22 GMT -6
Interesting reply on this article. An example of the difference is that, in England, a police caution given to someone who has previously served time will be recorded as a re-offending; whereas in Norway it is only counted as a re-offending if you receive a new prison sentence, or community sanction / service order, within two years of release from prison. It is a significant difference; and the fact that you mix statistics, that are compiled in completely different ways (and for very different types of institutions) therefore detracts from the very valid underlying message that both the rates of criminality and the rates of recidivism ARE significantly lower in Norway (but even then you have to look at the fact that there are big differences in the sorts of crimes that will see you get a custodial sentence and qualify you as a recidivist when you commit another crime)..
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Post by Californian on Jun 17, 2014 12:17:56 GMT -6
An example of the difference is that, in England, a police caution given to someone who has previously served time will be recorded as a re-offending; "police caution?" Wassat?
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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 17, 2014 12:47:13 GMT -6
An example of the difference is that, in England, a police caution given to someone who has previously served time will be recorded as a re-offending; "police caution?" Wassat? I assume their term caution means to us warning, if you previously served time will be recorded as a re-offending. Warning is on record.
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Post by Californian on Jun 17, 2014 17:06:18 GMT -6
"police caution?" Wassat? I assume their term caution means to us warning, if you previously served time will be recorded as a re-offending. Warning is on record. A warning? Obviously a human rights violation. VERY harsh!
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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 17, 2014 17:26:54 GMT -6
I assume their term caution means to us warning, if you previously served time will be recorded as a re-offending. Warning is on record. A warning? Obviously a human rights violation. VERY harsh! Yes, most certainly is. Whats this world coming to?
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Post by starbux on Jun 17, 2014 20:42:41 GMT -6
So what Nils, you are comparing the 1600's to now! Back then you could executed for being a witch. Oh BTW for the first few hundred years those exuctions were under the British mandate. This is a skewed data set. Yeah they have gone down thanks to your friends in the sense that we have to wait 30 years to zap an A-Hole. But they will come back in full force because we have plenty of condemned to finish off and more added to the list every day.
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Post by Matt on Jun 18, 2014 14:26:48 GMT -6
A police warning sounds like a joke to me. That's what you're given in the US when you're pulled over for speeding, IF you are lucky.
And I see little point in comparing the US and Sweden, given that they are such different countries. You have to find like-nations to compare on crime. Similar education levels, poverty rates, cultural expressions and acceptance of violence, etc. Dare I say concentrations of immigrants and other ethnic dynamics (ooh that last one is loaded, watch out! LOL).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 21:49:33 GMT -6
"police caution?" Wassat? I assume their term caution means to us warning, if you previously served time will be recorded as a re-offending. Warning is on record. I got one when i was 13. Police didn't like my art work on the train. They get there biggest agli
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Post by moonlight on Jun 25, 2014 12:11:48 GMT -6
Executions are going one day to resume in Germany, France, the UK and the rest of western Europe because too many people there are fed up from the dramatic increase in murder rate there. In about 20 years from now Great Britain will be the first state to reinstate the death penalty and resume executions.
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Post by fuglyville on Jun 25, 2014 13:43:23 GMT -6
Executions are going one day to resume in Germany, France, the UK and the rest of western Europe because too many people there are fed up from the dramatic increase in murder rate there. In about 20 years from now Great Britain will be the first state to reinstate the death penalty and resume executions. Citation needed...
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Post by ltdc on Jun 25, 2014 15:22:41 GMT -6
Executions are going one day to resume in Germany, France, the UK and the rest of western Europe because too many people there are fed up from the dramatic increase in murder rate there. In about 20 years from now Great Britain will be the first state to reinstate the death penalty and resume executions. Citation needed... citation. now that's funny
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Post by Woody on Jun 26, 2014 0:12:01 GMT -6
Executions are going one day to resume in Germany, France, the UK and the rest of western Europe because too many people there are fed up from the dramatic increase in murder rate there. In about 20 years from now Great Britain will be the first state to reinstate the death penalty and resume executions.
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Post by nils on Jun 26, 2014 4:17:49 GMT -6
Executions are going one day to resume in Germany, France, the UK and the rest of western Europe because too many people there are fed up from the dramatic increase in murder rate there. In about 20 years from now Great Britain will be the first state to reinstate the death penalty and resume executions. Hello all! Moonlight writes: "Executions are going one day to resume in Germany, France, the UK and the rest of western Europe because too many people there are fed up from the dramatic increase in murder rate there." Which dramatic increase do you refer to Moonlight? Crime (and murder) seem, contrary to what you Believe, be on decline. Seems rather like executions in America are on the decline. Which is good news. see these links: link www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/24/crime-rate-england-wales-falls-lowest-level-33-years/print www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/12/19/u_s_capital_punishment_death_penatly_information_center_finds_executions.htmlCrime rate in England and Wales falls 15% to its lowest level in 33 yearsFall is one of biggest in history of Crime Survey of England and Wales and is driven by a 22% fall in violent crime The crime rate in England and Wales has fallen by an unexpected 15% to an estimated 7.5m offences, its lowest level since the official survey began 33 years ago. The fall is one of the biggest in the history of the authoritative Crime Survey of England and Wales, and was driven by a 22% fall in violent crime, a 25% fall in some types of household theft, a 15% fall in vandalism and a 10% fall in car crime. The murder rate in England and Wales also showed a slight fall in 2013, down to 551, and is now nearly 50% below the 2001-02 peak of 1,047, which included many of the victims of Harold Shipman. The claim that England and Wales are now much safer than 20 years ago is reinforced by figures showing that even antisocial behaviour fell by 7% last year, extending a six-year decline. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said the 15% fall in the overall rate meant that crime had fallen by 25% since 2007-08 and by 60% since its peak level in 1995. The second official measure of crime, the contested police-recorded crime figures, which have lost their national statistics status, showed a much smaller annual fall of 2% to 3.7m offences. Statisticians said this was possibly the result of a renewed focus on the quality of crime recording by the police following the political controversy over their integrity. However, the police recorded crime figures reveal a continued upward pressure in specific crimes thought to be related to economic hardship, particularly shoplifting, which rose by 6% across England and Wales last year. But this masked a growing north-south pattern, with the underlying figures showing rises in shoplifting of 20% in the West Midlands, 19% in Nottinghamshire and 16% on Merseyside. Increases in shoplifting were recorded in 34 out of the 43 police force areas. The police figures also show the first fall for two years in smartphone street thefts, with the category of thefts from the person, which includes pickpocketing, falling by 2% last year. The detailed police recorded crime figures also report a 17% rise in sexual offences including a 20% rise in rape to 19,214, the highest level for a decade. The large rise in rapes and other sexual offences was partly due to increases in offences involving children, according to statisticians. The police figures record 13,090 sexual offences involving a child under the age of 13 in 2013, the highest reported total for a decade, and an increase of 32% on the previous 12 months. They include a 54% increase in rapes and sexual assaults on boys under 13 which rose from 1,775 to 2,727 last year. The number of sexual attacks on girls under 13 rose by 25% to 7,611 last year. Statisticians said that the rises reflected similar recent figures from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, which attributed some of this increase to the impact of the Jimmy Savile case. They said that media coverage of Savile and the police investigation into historical sex crimes, Operation Yewtree, had prompted victims to come forward. The 2013 crime figures are the first full-year data after the Savile disclosures, and the "Yewtree effect" is starting to decline, statisticians say. While allegations relating to current offences rather than historical allegations accounted for only 21% of the increase in the crime figures six months ago, they now account for 50% of the increase in this latest set. The detailed crime figures also show a 25% rise in fraud to 207,252 recorded by Action Fraud, a new central organisation which has taken over the recording of fraud in all police force areas. Much of it is online fraud, data for which was not being captured by individual police forces before. But the overall picture shows a 15% fall in crime across nearly all other categories. The detailed figures show not only a continued decline in the murder rate but robberies down 12%, gun crime down 6% and knife crime down 4%. Household burglaries, once the main crime concern in the 1980s and 1990s, show a further 4% fall on the crime survey. Drug offences were also down by 5% but 171,000 people are still being penalised for possession of drugs, mainly cannabis. There is no consensus among criminologists about the key factors driving the sustained fall in crime. Earlier this week Cardiff University researchers highlighted the decline in binge drinking and rising alcohol prices as a factor, but competing theories include links to the state of the economy and the removal of lead in petrol. Statisticians said that the difference between the 15% fall estimated by the survey and the much smaller 2% fall on the police recorded figures partly reflected the renewed focus on improving their quality. They pointed to rises in recorded violent crime figures of 26% in Gwent and 25% in Kent – the two forces where the controversy over "fiddled figures" was most intense – as evidence of a correction in recording methods taking place. Norman Baker, the crime prevention minister, said the figures showed clear evidence that the government's programme of police reform was working. He said: "The government has a strong record on reinforcing the independence and accountability of the statistics. We asked Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary last June to carry out an audit of the quality of crime recording in every police force, and the home secretary has written to chief constables emphasising that the police must ensure that crimes are recorded accurately and honestly." But Jon Collins of the Police Foundation said the government should be wary of resting on its laurels. "While some crimes – such as burglary and car crime – are clearly not the problem they once were, it's possible that the official crime figures are just not picking up the extent to which new opportunities for crime have emerged, particularly online," he said. He added: "Significant increases in levels of fraud, while likely to be at least in part a product of changes in reporting and recording practice, are of particular concern within this context. In welcoming falling crime rates, it's important not to be blind to new and emerging challenges." Best wishes from Sweden Nils
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Post by ltdc on Jun 27, 2014 8:44:51 GMT -6
The murder rate in England and Wales also showed a slight fall in 2013, down to 551, so apparently, like the death penalty, whatever they are doing DID NOT deter/prevent 551 murders. guess they should scrap it, huh Nils?
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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 27, 2014 9:12:11 GMT -6
The murder rate in England and Wales also showed a slight fall in 2013, down to 551, The murder rate in the U.S drops to a 33 yr low, including rape & assault. Key reason, technology. ABC news. We show far past a slight fall. So? If we are going to play compare countries game... Of course being legally armed helped too for self defense. Justifiable homicide.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jul 1, 2014 13:41:57 GMT -6
The murder rate in England and Wales also showed a slight fall in 2013, down to 551, so apparently, like the death penalty, whatever they are doing DID NOT deter/prevent 551 murders. guess they should scrap it, huh Nils? Just think how fast the murder rate would drop, if 551 were executed for the 551 murder's. That would get the point across fast.
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Post by ltdc on Jul 2, 2014 8:44:36 GMT -6
so apparently, like the death penalty, whatever they are doing DID NOT deter/prevent 551 murders. guess they should scrap it, huh Nils? Just think how fast the murder rate would drop, if 551 were executed for the 551 murder's. That would get the point across fast. you would think so, but people like Nils have no interest in crime rates dropping. the discussion would simply change to "how many" of those 551 were innocent.
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Post by dogrose on Jul 4, 2014 13:15:47 GMT -6
But those 551 would still be murdered..how would that tie up with the murder rate dropping?
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Post by whitediamonds on Jul 4, 2014 13:59:52 GMT -6
But those 551 would still be murdered..how would that tie up with the murder rate dropping? It would show we are serious simple as that. Instead of the crap going on now.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 8:35:20 GMT -6
When Martin Bryant shot dead 35 people in 1996, he accounted for about 1 in 9 murder victims in Australia for that year. He caused a 500% increase in homicides in Tasmania for that year.(one of the smallest states in Australia).
One of the reasons for the drop in homicide stats is better trauma care for assault victims. That is we save many shooting and bashing victims that would have not survived 30 years ago. Another is an increased awareness about domestic violence. Women, now have some place to escape, police are more active in dealing with serious events before they turn into homicides and the community is more aware so people are less likely to get away with it. Also, stopping the drug trade reduces violent crimes and inturn reduces felony murders.
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Post by kingsindanger on Jul 7, 2014 20:21:39 GMT -6
With the declining execution rate, what message is being sent to the would-be murderers? If you commit murder, your chances of being executed are less than say 20 years ago. That message seems backward to me. We should be executing more, not less.
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lordextinct
Freshman
Pro death penalty - full steam ahead!
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Post by lordextinct on Sept 14, 2014 12:28:24 GMT -6
So what Nils, you are comparing the 1600's to now! Back then you could executed for being a witch. Oh BTW for the first few hundred years those exuctions were under the British mandate. This is a skewed data set. Yeah they have gone down thanks to your friends in the sense that we have to wait 30 years to zap an A-Hole. But they will come back in full force because we have plenty of condemned to finish off and more added to the list every day. Please allow a newbie (but one of the right spirit, I hope...) to express some of the relief I find in Your outstanding posts! I cannot interface to these lethal injections, and perhaps I´m slightly too old fashioned. Therefore I shall hereby take the Liberty of asking You, valued member of this Community, what is Your opininon of the capital punishment OPTIONS? Could You, by any chance, welcome a guillotine as a secure and efficient tool for the executioner? It is my firm conviction that this form of execution is one of the highly recommendable alternatives ever. The other options, as I see, are Death by hanging or as a third one, Death by a a squadron with fire arms. Build the scaffolds up within the prison areas, I say! The Days of official executions are probably a chapter that will never be reinstated... However, whom may possess any total knowledge of what the future holds? Considering the scheduled execution of this Billy Ray Irick in Tennessee, who raped and murdered a seven year old girl in 1985, I would personally and nota bene for free be honoured to raise the broad axe above his neck in public. It is about time the delinquent pays his debt to society. Thank You!
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lordextinct
Freshman
Pro death penalty - full steam ahead!
Posts: 38
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Post by lordextinct on Sept 14, 2014 12:30:53 GMT -6
Goodbye Capital Punishment
Below Graph is from Steven Pinker's Better Angels of Our Nature, and shows the rate of executions declining dramatically - also in the states that still have it on the books, it's mostly used less frequently. Best wishes from Sweden. Nils.
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Post by whitediamonds on Sept 14, 2014 12:55:31 GMT -6
The Days of official executions are probably a chapter that will never be reinstated... However, whom may possess any total knowledge of what the future holds?; [/p][/quote]
Especially with the world getting more violent.
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