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Post by rick4404 on Jan 21, 2014 9:56:42 GMT -6
I may have asked this question before, but it probably bears repeating. With all the news of late concerning lethal injection, and the manufacturers of the substances which prisons use to execute criminals no longer wanting to provide their products for that purpose; and the seemingly endless stream of litigation pertaining to the humaneness of lethal injection...at what point will the states simply throw in the towel on lethal injection and seek to introduce alternate means of execution?
The attorneys general of Missouri and Wyoming have publicly endorsed the idea of adopting the firing squad in their respective states. Missouri's only other legal means of inflicting a death sentence is by means of lethal gas, and the state has no working gas chamber. It was last used in 1965; and is now part of a prison museum tour at the long-since decommissioned Missouri State Penitentiary. Wyoming also has no working gas chamber. The rusting chamber is part of the displays at the Wyoming Territorial Prison Museum in Rawlins, Wyo.
There are some states such as Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia which could revert back to exclusive use of the electric chair. In states such as Ohio, Oklahoma and others, their electric chairs were removed years ago and are part of museum exhibits.
I doubt that any state would revert back to the use of the gas chamber full time. Arizona, California, Nevada, Mississippi and North Carolina (if executions ever resume there). Lethal gas is probably the most dangerous means of inflicting a death sentence in that the lethal gas does not choose its victim. If somehow the lethal gas were to escape from the chamber during an execution, it could put the witnesses to the execution, the prison staff and anyone in close proximity to the chamber in danger of being exposed to the deadly gas.
Which leaves us the obvious choices of firing squad and hanging; both of which have survived constitutional challenges over the years. Assembling a firing squad to perform an execution doesn't exactly take rocket science. Hanging, if done properly, is pretty much a quick and painless death. Any state could put up a gallows.
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Post by fuglyville on Jan 21, 2014 14:44:05 GMT -6
The obvious solution would be to scrap the death penalty altogether If they - despite all common sense - insist on keeping it, the only factor worth considering is the importance of a quick, humane and painless death.
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Post by charon on Jan 21, 2014 22:31:09 GMT -6
The obvious solution would be to scrap the death penalty altogether If they - despite all common sense - insist on keeping it, the only factor worth considering is the importance of a quick, humane and painless death. I always thought you're a closet-pro. I'm impressed fugly. I don't like you, but I'm impressed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2014 23:03:57 GMT -6
Hello everyone, this is my first post. The primary catalyst for me joining this forum was all the public backlash that has resulted from the McGuire execution, and so I guess this is a convenient opportunity to express my view on the future of lethal injection and the future of the death penalty in this country. To state it up front, I am absolutely pro capital punishment for the worst of the worst that humanity has to offer. I have been in the opinion for many years that the use of lethal injection is a poor half measure, designed to satisfy both sides of the argument, the pro DP camp and anti. The result I feel is the universal opinion that it really satisfies neither. The anti folks will always be against the DP no matter what the method, and the pro side feels as if lethal injection is a 'soft option'. As a proponent of capital punishment, I strongly lean in the later category. Simply put, I feel as if LI has no value as a deterrent to violent criminals, of which that aspect has been one of the primary arguments of why there needs to be a death penalty in the first place. At the same time, despite my gut instinct to want to see these vicious disgusting people have meted out the same degree of pain and terror their victims experienced, I know that we as a civilized society must use constraint as the constitution prevents literal 'eye for an eye' punishments. So in short, the ideal method of punishment should be a balance between 'fear factor' and constitutionality. In my opinion, out of all the current legal methods, the electric chair and the gas chamber have that mix, but due to the numerous variables as those methods are applied, neither has proven predictable results.
For the future; I'd immediately rule out the gas chamber (using hydrogen cyanide), it is unsafe, the most unpredictable physiologically and borderline unconstitutional. I personally like the electric chair, if I had to be executed, that would be the way I would pick. I'm sure most of you probably know that when the current hits a person, all of the nerves in the brain become depolarized within a few hundredths of a second, or so as many medical experts say. The biggest problem in the relatively recent past (80s-90s) with the chair has not been so much the variables of the person being executed than it has been with operator error and improper/outdated equipment. In my opinion those states that insisted on using their electric chairs for as long as they could (Florida, Alabama, ect.) ruined it for themselves by not investing money on updating their equipment. I'd like to see it used again, though with these changes: using modern solid-state electronically regulated power supply that can guarantee a specific voltage and current without 'sag' (which the antique equipment using 19th century designed dynamos or simple step-up transformer circuits suffer from). Second, using 2 leg electrodes instead of the one (it would divide the total body resistance, thus further reducing sag) Third, keeping the execution chamber cold as possible to prevent excessive perspiration. Fourth, using a very strong ventilation system to prevent any and all smells away from the staff and witnesses. Fifth, would be to use a system that would continuously feed salinated water into the headpiece to compensate for the evaporation that normally occurs, thus preventing egregious burning of the condemned's head. And sixth, would be to install a dry chemical, fire extinguishing system aimed specifically at the points of electrode contact on the body.
As for the firing squad, though it is still considered constitutional, is extremely prone for error. I feel as if the reason it is still constitutional is because it hasn't been used much in the modern era. If it were to be used more often, it is a guarantee that there will be an incident that will once again cause a grid lock while the courts, politicians, and media debate. Hanging, another method of antiquity. This method would be a close second for me next to electrocution, so long as it was done properly. The key flaw to this method historically has been the skill of the hangman. As we all know, too short a drop the person chokes to death, too long and he is decapitated. My solution to this would be to simply remove the human element and make all calculations and adjustments done by computer. They could call the system; the Pierrepoint 2.0, lol!
Last but not least, the method I feel has the best chance for long term success would be 'Nitrogen Asphyxiation' aka 'Inert Gas Asphyxiation'. As much as I would strongly favor the electric chair and hanging (if improved), I know that their history of bad mistakes will leave a bad taste in the minds of the more moderate public. With all the legal wrangling that would inevitably result, it would be very tough to get that first person in the execution chamber to test those new premises to establish a new legal precedence. I intend to start a new thread based on the concept on nitrogen asphyxiation, so I'll leave this one alone for the moment. I'm sorry for being so long winded, and I appreciate anyone who has read everything up to this point.
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Post by fuglyville on Jan 22, 2014 0:17:21 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 22, 2014 0:48:23 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it. Yes, not easy for sure. Even if it was a loved one or myself. If I or a loved one qualified to reach DR, I would never be so arrogant as to expect anything less.
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Post by charon on Jan 22, 2014 1:13:15 GMT -6
Hello everyone, this is my first post. Welcome. Great post.
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Post by charon on Jan 22, 2014 1:14:03 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it. No problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 3:02:44 GMT -6
Hello everyone, this is my first post. Welcome. Great post. Thank you
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Post by moonlight on Jan 22, 2014 7:40:43 GMT -6
I have a new idea of executing condemned murderers in a most humane fashion. A special roentgan or an XRay apparatus should be innovated that would simply obliterate the executee for good. Those innovative execution methods would be called "roentgencutions" or "XRaycutions" respectively
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Post by fuglyville on Jan 22, 2014 11:05:32 GMT -6
Hello everyone, this is my first post. The primary catalyst for me joining this forum was all the public backlash that has resulted from the McGuire execution, and so I guess this is a convenient opportunity to express my view on the future of lethal injection and the future of the death penalty in this country. To state it up front, I am absolutely pro capital punishment for the worst of the worst that humanity has to offer. I have been in the opinion for many years that the use of lethal injection is a poor half measure, designed to satisfy both sides of the argument, the pro DP camp and anti. The result I feel is the universal opinion that it really satisfies neither. The anti folks will always be against the DP no matter what the method, and the pro side feels as if lethal injection is a 'soft option'. As a proponent of capital punishment, I strongly lean in the later category. Simply put, I feel as if LI has no value as a deterrent to violent criminals, of which that aspect has been one of the primary arguments of why there needs to be a death penalty in the first place. At the same time, despite my gut instinct to want to see these vicious disgusting people have meted out the same degree of pain and terror their victims experienced, I know that we as a civilized society must use constraint as the constitution prevents literal 'eye for an eye' punishments. So in short, the ideal method of punishment should be a balance between 'fear factor' and constitutionality. In my opinion, out of all the current legal methods, the electric chair and the gas chamber have that mix, but due to the numerous variables as those methods are applied, neither has proven predictable results. Oh, hi and welcome! Just a quick question: Lethal injection in the U.S. began with Texas in 1982(me thinks), and has eventually replaced earlier and more brutal methods of execution. As lethal injection has grown, the murder rate has sunk( thepublicintellectual.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Homicides-1900-2010-2.jpg ). On what grounds do you assume more brutal methods would deter more murders?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 14:36:45 GMT -6
Lethal injection was first proposed in Oklahoma in 1977, but not used until 1982 in Texas. You certainly do make a valid point that the crime rate has decreased, but I don't think that figure has anything to do with the universal adoption of lethal injection. I see the advancements in criminal investigation having more of an impact on the homicide rates. Basically meaning that it is much harder to get away with murder today than it was 30 years ago, so thus fewer people try knowing the chances of their getting caught have never been higher. There are people who will never be deterred even if the punishment was to be hung, drawn and quartered, but with people on the borderline the method will make the difference whether or not they kill. I read an interview of an old timer convict who said when he would commit robbery, he would purposely not bring a gun for fear that he would use it and get sent to the electric chair. I can't imagine any convict today saying the same thing today, if fact from what I've gathered is that people like that figure if they get caught, they at the least will be going to prison for life and the prospect of getting a shot that puts you sleep forever is something that may even be welcomed. Anyways, I am not proposing reverting back to the old methods in fear that a worse botch will happen and capital punishment as a whole will be at risk, despite my feelings that the electric chair makes for a more balanced punishment. See my other thread on how I am advocating for Nitrogen Asphyxiation as the way forward.
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Post by Donnie on Jan 22, 2014 20:52:57 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it. I allow my loved ones to use fire and automobiles. Either of those can and do regularly cause horrible deaths, much more horrible than any of the death penalty methods used in the US, ever.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2014 22:17:09 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it. On the other hand dearest fugly........ The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or loved ones to go through being murdered. I know you won't have anything to say about that. You never do. You just keep on typing the propaganda put out by all of your scumpal friends. You don't care one bit about the victims or the people that loved them. You just love your precious murderers.
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amazonfuneralpyre
Old Hand
I reaped Lord Voldemort LOL & how was your day??
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Post by amazonfuneralpyre on Jan 24, 2014 6:05:10 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it. On the other hand dearest fugly........ The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or loved ones to go through being murdered. I know you won't have anything to say about that. You never do. You just keep on typing the propaganda put out by all of your scumpal friends. You don't care one bit about the victims or the people that loved them. You just love your precious murderers. Do, tell greggsmom. fugly-the-mean just needs to shut up!
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Post by fuglyville on Jan 24, 2014 18:45:50 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it. On the other hand dearest fugly........ The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or loved ones to go through being murdered. I know you won't have anything to say about that. You never do. You just keep on typing the propaganda put out by all of your scumpal friends. You don't care one bit about the victims or the people that loved them. You just love your precious murderers. Aaaw... You're so cute when you're angry
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 24, 2014 18:55:29 GMT -6
On the other hand dearest fugly........ The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or loved ones to go through being murdered. I know you won't have anything to say about that. You never do. You just keep on typing the propaganda put out by all of your scumpal friends. You don't care one bit about the victims or the people that loved them. You just love your precious murderers. Aaaw... You're so cute when you're angry It is not anger it's common sense, you do love your murderers ...sick F
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 20:16:32 GMT -6
On the other hand dearest fugly........ The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or loved ones to go through being murdered. I know you won't have anything to say about that. You never do. You just keep on typing the propaganda put out by all of your scumpal friends. You don't care one bit about the victims or the people that loved them. You just love your precious murderers. Aaaw... You're so cute when you're angry Aww you're so stupid when you can't debate. Answer the question. Would you want yourself or someone you love to be murdered? It's a fair question. Since you find it necessary to point out that murderers and their families feelings are so important, why can't you ever think others have feelings?? Btw, I wasn't angry . I was just pointing out the obvious. Being angry over people like you isn't worth it. I just find it my duty to point out to others what a deceptive scumpal you are. Don't want any newbies to think you have anything worth saying. IOW, You are a total waste.
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Post by kingsindanger on Jan 25, 2014 16:45:58 GMT -6
I never liked LI. I think the electric chair or a firing squad serves the purpose much more efficiently. There is no problems with supply and you are not waiting 10-15 for the condemned to die.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 25, 2014 16:50:19 GMT -6
I never liked LI. I think the electric chair or a firing squad serves the purpose much more efficiently. There is no problems with supply and you are not waiting 10-15 for the condemned to die. I think the firing squad is the most humane for all. Electric chair questionable.
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Post by charon on Jan 25, 2014 22:43:34 GMT -6
I never liked LI. I think the electric chair or a firing squad serves the purpose much more efficiently. There is no problems with supply and you are not waiting 10-15 for the condemned to die. I think the firing squad is the most humane for all. Electric chair questionable. I agree with you both. I think they should consider a mechanical executor which fires a bullet on the exact hour designated, at the scumbag strapped down and incapable to dodge the shot. The chief executor only serves to halt the execution by the push of a button if need be. Sweet and simple.
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Post by ltdc on Jan 27, 2014 16:15:56 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it. remember to consider the alternative of being bubba's boy-toy(and all his friends)for the rest of your worthless life.
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Post by charon on Jan 27, 2014 22:05:54 GMT -6
The deciding factor should be whether you'd allow yourself or your loved ones to go through it. remember to consider the alternative of being bubba's boy-toy(and all his friends)for the rest of your worthless life. Not to mention to consider that your loved ones might get murdered too, yes? Put that in your pipe and choke on it fugly.
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Post by rick4404 on Feb 17, 2014 19:43:18 GMT -6
A number of you have brought up nitrogen asphyxiation. You might be on to something here. Not sure if there would need to be an actual chamber constructed, much like the gas chambers of old, or if it could be as simple as strapping a condemned to a chair and putting a mask over his/her face. It would seem to be a very clinical death, would involve no hazardous materials that could put anyone in close proximity in danger, etc.
Personally, I doubt that the cyanide gas chambers will ever be resurrected. No one makes them anymore, nor the working parts for a gas chamber. Second, the handful of gas chambers that are still around (San Quentin, Mississippi, North Carolina, etc.) could very well leak during an execution, thus putting those in close proximity to the outside of the chamber -- witnesses, prison staff, etc. in danger of being exposed to the deadly fumes in the event the chamber were to leak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 21:03:10 GMT -6
A number of you have brought up nitrogen asphyxiation. You might be on to something here. Not sure if there would need to be an actual chamber constructed, much like the gas chambers of old, or if it could be as simple as strapping a condemned to a chair and putting a mask over his/her face. It would seem to be a very clinical death, would involve no hazardous materials that could put anyone in close proximity in danger, etc. Personally, I doubt that the cyanide gas chambers will ever be resurrected. No one makes them anymore, nor the working parts for a gas chamber. Second, the handful of gas chambers that are still around (San Quentin, Mississippi, North Carolina, etc.) could very well leak during an execution, thus putting those in close proximity to the outside of the chamber -- witnesses, prison staff, etc. in danger of being exposed to the deadly fumes in the event the chamber were to leak. I don't think asphyxiation will be used again- the anti"s will be screaming cruel & unusual punishment. Apparently gas chamber executions were realy horrible to watch,
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Post by rick4404 on Feb 18, 2014 10:34:59 GMT -6
A number of you have brought up nitrogen asphyxiation. You might be on to something here. Not sure if there would need to be an actual chamber constructed, much like the gas chambers of old, or if it could be as simple as strapping a condemned to a chair and putting a mask over his/her face. It would seem to be a very clinical death, would involve no hazardous materials that could put anyone in close proximity in danger, etc. Personally, I doubt that the cyanide gas chambers will ever be resurrected. No one makes them anymore, nor the working parts for a gas chamber. Second, the handful of gas chambers that are still around (San Quentin, Mississippi, North Carolina, etc.) could very well leak during an execution, thus putting those in close proximity to the outside of the chamber -- witnesses, prison staff, etc. in danger of being exposed to the deadly fumes in the event the chamber were to leak. I don't think asphyxiation will be used again- the anti"s will be screaming cruel & unusual punishment. Apparently gas chamber executions were realy horrible to watch, There were two particularly gruesome executions that took place in the United States in the 20th century that were conducted by gas chamber. One that was particularly grizzly in nature involved a convicted murderer named Jimmy Lee Gray. He was executed at the Parchman Farm -- the Mississippi State Penitentiary just after midnight on September 2, 1983. This was Mississippi's first execution in some 18 years. The execution was a notorious horror show. But the reason that questions about the execution were being directed at the executioner (usually a party as silent in these matters as he is implacable) was that Jimmy Lee Gray’s had been drunk on the job. Under Mississippi law, the name of the official state executioner could not be kept a secret due to the state's public information laws. Therefore, the name of the executioner was revealed as one T. Barry Bruce, a worker at the prison. It had been reported that Gray had been“gasping” or “moaning” a recorded eleven times during the execution. Gray convulsed wildly in the Parchman death chair, slamming his unrestrained head “with enough force to shake the chamber” against a metal pole that some user interface genius had positioned right behind the death chair. The witness room was cleared eight minutes into the affair, with Gray still thrashing about. Though Mississippi corrections officials contended that Gray was clinically dead within two minutes, that head-smashing act disturbed everyone. Another particularly grizzly execution took place at the North Carolina Central Prison in Raleigh, N.C. At that execution, condemned murderer David Lawson became the second to the last man executed in the state's gas chamber in the 20th century. In the early morning hours of June 15, 1994, Lawson was escorted to the gas chamber and strapped into the chair. The door was closed and sealed shut. Moments later a loud bang was heard and then the white whisps of the gas started to rise up around the chair. The bang was the sound of the cyanide pellets being dropped from beneath the chair into a bucket of acid that was placed underneath the chair. It took 18 minutes for Lawson to die, and he screamed "I'm human!!" several times throughout the execution, until he finally fell unconscious. Witnesses described a horrifying scene. A short while after David Lawson was executed, Gary Dixon who was the warden of Central Prison and oversaw the Lawson execution, resigned. He was quoted as saying that he never wanted to go through something like that ever again.
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Post by Californian on Feb 18, 2014 19:58:32 GMT -6
One that was particularly grizzly in nature involved a convicted murderer named Jimmy Lee Gray. Unless the state executed a species of bear (ursus horribilis) found primarily in the northern Rocky Mountain states and Alaska, I believe "grisly" is the word you're looking for.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2014 21:05:32 GMT -6
There were two particularly gruesome executions that took place in the United States in the 20th century that were conducted by gas chamber. One that was particularly grizzly in nature involved a convicted murderer named Jimmy Lee Gray. He was executed at the Parchman Farm -- the Mississippi State Penitentiary just after midnight on September 2, 1983. This was Mississippi's first execution in some 18 years. The execution was a notorious horror show. But the reason that questions about the execution were being directed at the executioner (usually a party as silent in these matters as he is implacable) was that Jimmy Lee Gray’s had been drunk on the job. Under Mississippi law, the name of the official state executioner could not be kept a secret due to the state's public information laws. Therefore, the name of the executioner was revealed as one T. Barry Bruce, a worker at the prison. It had been reported that Gray had been“gasping” or “moaning” a recorded eleven times during the execution. Gray convulsed wildly in the Parchman death chair, slamming his unrestrained head “with enough force to shake the chamber” against a metal pole that some user interface genius had positioned right behind the death chair. The witness room was cleared eight minutes into the affair, with Gray still thrashing about. Though Mississippi corrections officials contended that Gray was clinically dead within two minutes, that head-smashing act disturbed everyone. Another particularly grizzly execution took place at the North Carolina Central Prison in Raleigh, N.C. At that execution, condemned murderer David Lawson became the second to the last man executed in the state's gas chamber in the 20th century. In the early morning hours of June 15, 1994, Lawson was escorted to the gas chamber and strapped into the chair. The door was closed and sealed shut. Moments later a loud bang was heard and then the white whisps of the gas started to rise up around the chair. The bang was the sound of the cyanide pellets being dropped from beneath the chair into a bucket of acid that was placed underneath the chair. It took 18 minutes for Lawson to die, and he screamed "I'm human!!" several times throughout the execution, until he finally fell unconscious. Witnesses described a horrifying scene. A short while after David Lawson was executed, Gary Dixon who was the warden of Central Prison and oversaw the Lawson execution, resigned. He was quoted as saying that he never wanted to go through something like that ever again. The problem with cyanide is that people have different tolerances for it. Some people are very sensitive to it and will lose consciousness very quickly where others have a high tolerance to it and will take a long time to die. This factor has nothing to do with prior exposure to cyanide, it is strictly genetic in the same way that some people cannot smell the distinctive odor of cyanide (although in the gas chamber, the condemned will mainly smell the sulfur from the sulfuric acid). For an example of this; it was reported when Eva Braun took cyanide, it killed her very quickly with no apparent sign of distress. Herman Goering when he took cyanide, he struggled and gasped for air for a few minutes before he finally died and his postmortem photo shows that his face was contorted. There are plenty of stories of people who took cyanide by accident or suicide attempt that lived despite them consuming what would be considered a lethal dose. So despite the popular story about Jimmy Lee Gray (child rapist and murderer) and how he died being a result of a drunken executioner, the simple fact is that apparently his genetic tolerance to the poison was high. Also there is a question whether or not he was actually conscious while he was banging his head against that pole.
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Post by Californian on Feb 18, 2014 22:31:24 GMT -6
So despite the popular story about Jimmy Lee Gray (child rapist and murderer) and how he died being a result of a drunken executioner, the simple fact is that apparently his genetic tolerance to the poison was high. Also there is a question whether or not he was actually conscious while he was banging his head against that pole. Ingesting cyanide is not the same as inhaling HCN gas. According to Eaton Metal Products, the company that manufactured all the gas chambers in the U.S., the chamber generates about 7500 PPM (parts per million.) OSHA standards assert that exposure to HCN gas at 100 PPM CAN be lethal. Inhalation of HCN gas immediately disrupts gas exchange in the lungs of CO2 for oxygen. One lungful of HCN gas at 7500 PPM causes almost instant unconscious because of this. Due to this, I believe some mistake was made in mixing the warm water and acid for the pots beneath the chair in Gray's case. When the cyanide pellets hit the acid/water mix, not enough HCN gas was generated to cause quick unconsciousness. Was the executioner drunk? Who knows. However, I DO know that that particular scenario was alleged in a popular novel (and subsequent movie) "The Chamber," by John Grisham. Perhaps fiction became merged with reality, which is often how urban legends, which this may well be, start. As to banging his head while unconsciousness, I don't think so. I saw an interview with his lawyer, who witnessed the execution, who alleged that while banging his head against the pipe, he was also crying out "I'm human! I'm human!" Unconscious people do not apeak. It's more likely he was being dosed with enough HCN to cause him distress while possibly semiconscious. For these reasons, as above, I think it was botched, if that's the right word. After all, he was condemned to death and subsequently died. Ho hum.
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Post by Tahoe on Feb 18, 2014 23:59:40 GMT -6
Some argue that lethal injection isnt painless or effective quick enough. No consideration of course was given to the victims. Cruel & unusual punishment, of course! Justice? Depends on the person(s) involved on both sides. Will lethal injection be banish forever? Somewhere down the road it probably will, but not in my life time I hope.
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