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Post by Kay on Jan 25, 2013 21:51:46 GMT -6
Why on earth would you think you have the right to tell another woman she must bear a child? Abortion is not a choice I could make personally, but I DO NOT have license to tell another woman what she should do with her body. When a woman has an abortion she is doing very little to her body compared to what she is having done to the tiny human body that is given no choice. I personally could not choose abortion. My second pregnancy was very difficult and my daughter was born with severe handicaps. We got to love her for 21 months. When faced with an unexpected and unplanned pregnancy, and my history, abortion was something my doctor discussed. I could not make that choice. However, it's not up to me to tell another woman, she should make that same choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 22:24:08 GMT -6
When a woman has an abortion she is doing very little to her body compared to what she is having done to the tiny human body that is given no choice. I personally could not choose abortion. My second pregnancy was very difficult and my daughter was born with severe handicaps. We got to love her for 21 months. When faced with an unexpected and unplanned pregnancy, and my history, abortion was something my doctor discussed. I could not make that choice. However, it's not up to me to tell another woman, she should make that same choice. Well said Kay, sorry for your loss x
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Post by Donnie on Jan 25, 2013 23:10:56 GMT -6
I personally could not choose abortion. My second pregnancy was very difficult and my daughter was born with severe handicaps. We got to love her for 21 months. When faced with an unexpected and unplanned pregnancy, and my history, abortion was something my doctor discussed. I could not make that choice. However, it's not up to me to tell another woman, she should make that same choice. Should another woman be told anything about the other life that she is making a choice for? Should anybody care about the effect of one person's choice on the life of another human being? Is being pro-abortion really about being pro-choice?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 0:24:33 GMT -6
I personally could not choose abortion. My second pregnancy was very difficult and my daughter was born with severe handicaps. We got to love her for 21 months. When faced with an unexpected and unplanned pregnancy, and my history, abortion was something my doctor discussed. I could not make that choice. However, it's not up to me to tell another woman, she should make that same choice. Should another woman be told anything about the other life that she is making a choice for? Should anybody care about the effect of one person's choice on the life of another human being? Is being pro-abortion really about being pro-choice? I am sure most pregnant ladies think about the child within them. I think the main problem with the pro-choice view is that it doesn't hold human life as sacred. Often pro choices pride themselves on pragmatics, but you can argue thinks like money to rather perverse ends. For example one author in Australia argues parents should be able to euthanise infant children if they decide not to raise them. They make arguments because they infant hasn't developed a personality then it would be ok
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Jan 26, 2013 4:14:19 GMT -6
I personally could not choose abortion. My second pregnancy was very difficult and my daughter was born with severe handicaps. We got to love her for 21 months. When faced with an unexpected and unplanned pregnancy, and my history, abortion was something my doctor discussed. I could not make that choice. However, it's not up to me to tell another woman, she should make that same choice. Well said Kay, sorry for your loss x Quite right, and from me too
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 6:27:18 GMT -6
Should another woman be told anything about the other life that she is making a choice for? Should anybody care about the effect of one person's choice on the life of another human being? Is being pro-abortion really about being pro-choice? I am sure most pregnant ladies think about the child within them. I think the main problem with the pro-choice view is that it doesn't hold human life as sacred. Often pro choices pride themselves on pragmatics, but you can argue thinks like money to rather perverse ends. For example one author in Australia argues parents should be able to euthanise infant children if they decide not to raise them. They make arguments because they infant hasn't developed a personality then it would be ok Killing a child is very different from having an abortion, who is this author??? .
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Post by Kay on Jan 26, 2013 6:28:23 GMT -6
I personally could not choose abortion. My second pregnancy was very difficult and my daughter was born with severe handicaps. We got to love her for 21 months. When faced with an unexpected and unplanned pregnancy, and my history, abortion was something my doctor discussed. I could not make that choice. However, it's not up to me to tell another woman, she should make that same choice. Should another woman be told anything about the other life that she is making a choice for? Should anybody care about the effect of one person's choice on the life of another human being? Is being pro-abortion really about being pro-choice? Of course we should care about the effects of one person's choice on the life of another. I've lost a child and those feelings enable me to empathize with others who have suffered a similar loss. I was blessed to have my daughter for 21 months, but it was a difficult time, she needed constant monitoring and we knew when we took her home, she would not live a long life. I was lucky, I had a stable, loving marriage and financial resources that enabled her to have the best care available, she was in the hospital for almost 4 months after she was born, and several time during her life time. What if I were a single Mom, Donnie, would you adopt a child who you knew was going to live a brief life? Have you adopted children? And if you daughter was raped, and as a result, became pregnant, would you have her carry the pregnancy to term?
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Post by Donnie on Jan 26, 2013 7:37:18 GMT -6
What if I were a single Mom, Donnie, would you adopt a child who you knew was going to live a brief life? Have you adopted children? Hearing people often repeat an irrelevant question doesn't make the question relevant. The question could be used to justify the killing of any child.
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Post by Kay on Jan 26, 2013 7:44:46 GMT -6
What if I were a single Mom, Donnie, would you adopt a child who you knew was going to live a brief life? Have you adopted children? Hearing people often repeat an irrelevant question doesn't make the question relevant. The question could be used to justify the killing of any child. How is the question irrelevant? I respect your position Donnie, I couldn't choose abortion for myself, but shouldn't those who oppose termination, be prepared to adopt unwanted and neglected children? Should we not care as much for the child after it's born as we do before it arrives?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 8:14:02 GMT -6
I am sure most pregnant ladies think about the child within them. I think the main problem with the pro-choice view is that it doesn't hold human life as sacred. Often pro choices pride themselves on pragmatics, but you can argue thinks like money to rather perverse ends. For example one author in Australia argues parents should be able to euthanise infant children if they decide not to raise them. They make arguments because they infant hasn't developed a personality then it would be ok Killing a child is very different from having an abortion, who is this author??? . I'll find the citation at a more godly hour. However my point is this, those people are arguing exactly the opposite to, that is an infant isn't different from an unborn foetus, not until the age of 1 And pro choices such as yourself cannot void opinions like that
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Post by Matt on Jan 26, 2013 13:36:12 GMT -6
I disagree, you take someone's life because they ended someone else's. So you would execute the woman who has an abortion? There's really no difference. You either believe all life is sacred, or you don't. I'm fine with banning late trimester abortions. I believe they are illegal in the US. Once the fetus is viable outside the womb, then it's a human as far as I'm concerned and aborting it is murder. I believe that is the intent of the law over here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2013 16:10:40 GMT -6
I disagree, you take someone's life because they ended someone else's. So you would execute the woman who has an abortion? There's really no difference. You either believe all life is sacred, or you don't. I'm fine with banning late trimester abortions. I believe they are illegal in the US. Once the fetus is viable outside the womb, then it's a human as far as I'm concerned and aborting it is murder. I believe that is the intent of the law over here. No I believe it's okay if a woman's life is in danger. It's not about life being sacred, I don't think a woman is obliged to put her life at risk to bring a pregnancy to term. The analogy to homicide is self defence. You are to kill someone who is threatening you even when they aren't intending it. Late term abortions are frowned upon here but not illegal.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 26, 2013 16:30:44 GMT -6
So you would execute the woman who has an abortion? There's really no difference. You either believe all life is sacred, or you don't. I'm fine with banning late trimester abortions. I believe they are illegal in the US. Once the fetus is viable outside the womb, then it's a human as far as I'm concerned and aborting it is murder. I believe that is the intent of the law over here. No I believe it's okay if a woman's life is in danger. It's not about life being sacred, I don't think a woman is obliged to put her life at risk to bring a pregnancy to term. The analogy to homicide is self defence. You are to kill someone who is threatening you even when they aren't intending it. Late term abortions are frowned upon here but not illegal. Agree totally !!
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Post by Donnie on Jan 27, 2013 13:10:15 GMT -6
No I believe it's okay if a woman's life is in danger. It's not about life being sacred, I don't think a woman is obliged to put her life at risk to bring a pregnancy to term. The analogy to homicide is self defence. You are to kill someone who is threatening you even when they aren't intending it. If I am sitting in my front yard and I see an approaching vehicle, the driver of that vehicle is putting my life at risk. I know that because there have been many cases where vehicles have left roads and killed people who were not on the road. Therefore, using your analogy, I would be justified in killing the driver of the vehicle before he got close to my yard. Unlike gestation and birth, driving a vehicle is not a natural, live-giving process.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 27, 2013 13:59:11 GMT -6
No I believe it's okay if a woman's life is in danger. It's not about life being sacred, I don't think a woman is obliged to put her life at risk to bring a pregnancy to term. The analogy to homicide is self defence. You are to kill someone who is threatening you even when they aren't intending it. If I am sitting in my front yard and I see an approaching vehicle, the driver of that vehicle is putting my life at risk. I know that because there have been many cases where vehicles have left roads and killed people who were not on the road. Therefore, using your analogy, I would be justified in killing the driver of the vehicle before he got close to my yard. Unlike gestation and birth, driving a vehicle is not a natural, live-giving process. How does a women move out of the way of a pregnancy that may will cost her life??? wt?
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Post by Donnie on Jan 27, 2013 14:16:25 GMT -6
If I am sitting in my front yard and I see an approaching vehicle, the driver of that vehicle is putting my life at risk. I know that because there have been many cases where vehicles have left roads and killed people who were not on the road. Therefore, using your analogy, I would be justified in killing the driver of the vehicle before he got close to my yard. Unlike gestation and birth, driving a vehicle is not a natural, live-giving process. How does a women move out of the way of a pregnancy that may will cost her life??? wt? Another irrelevant question. Every pregnancy may cost a woman her life. There is no escape from risk for anybody. Saying that risk is an excuse for killing allows killing for any reason. Of course, if a woman is willing to kill to avoid risk from pregnancy, she should be willing to kill to avoid becoming pregnant.
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Post by Donnie on Jan 27, 2013 14:30:26 GMT -6
How is the question irrelevant? I respect your position Donnie, I couldn't choose abortion for myself, but shouldn't those who oppose termination, be prepared to adopt unwanted and neglected children? No. There should be no conditions placed on those who oppose the legal killing of those who are certainly innocent of any crime. There are no such conditions placed on those who oppose the killing of innocent adults. Even those who oppose the exeuction of murderers want somebody else to care for those who are spared by their efforts. [/quote]Should we not care as much for the child after it's born as we do before it arrives? [/quote] No. Once a child is born, she has a chance. If you kill her before she is born, she has no chance at all. Of course, caring for children should continue to be a general concern for society and an individual concern for everybody. But killing the unborn does not increase the care that is given for children. That is why the questions are irrelevant. Of course, this question is based on the false concept that people don't care for children after they are born. There is massive government and individual support for children who are born and for their mothers.
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Post by Donnie on Jan 27, 2013 14:33:12 GMT -6
Should another woman be told anything about the other life that she is making a choice for? Should anybody care about the effect of one person's choice on the life of another human being? Is being pro-abortion really about being pro-choice? I am sure most pregnant ladies think about the child within them. Indeed, I have seen some ladies write about why it is right to kill "parasitic blobs of flesh".
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 27, 2013 14:49:36 GMT -6
How does a women move out of the way of a pregnancy that may will cost her life??? wt? Another irrelevant question. Every pregnancy may cost a woman her life. There is no escape from risk for anybody. Saying that risk is an excuse for killing allows killing for any reason. Of course, if a woman is willing to kill to avoid risk from pregnancy, she should be willing to kill to avoid becoming pregnant. Donnie, no every preg does not even come close to costing the mothers life, exceptions are rare but, very real. So, the mother should die? You gotta be kidding it is our responsibilty to save life too. Doctors would even disagree, even according to the Oath they take. Maybe you yourself should refrain from sex with any women... Maybe all men should be neutered that think like you.
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Post by Donnie on Jan 27, 2013 15:01:29 GMT -6
Donnie, no every preg does not even come close to costing the mothers life, exceptions are rare but, very real. So, the mother should die? That is your question, not one that I would ask. I am curious how you concluded that anything I have written would result in such a question being relevant to my concerns. Perhaps it a misunderstanding of the concept of risk.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 27, 2013 15:29:34 GMT -6
Donnie, no every preg does not even come close to costing the mothers life, exceptions are rare but, very real. So, the mother should die? That is your question, not one that I would ask. I am curious how you concluded that anything I have written would result in such a question being relevant to my concerns. Perhaps it a misunderstanding of the concept of risk. Not your decision/call at all. I do not question anything that is the mothers "Life" at stake" it is her choice/call and it should be. Horrible spot to be in , like taking someone off life support for the family to decide.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 20:09:46 GMT -6
No I believe it's okay if a woman's life is in danger. It's not about life being sacred, I don't think a woman is obliged to put her life at risk to bring a pregnancy to term. The analogy to homicide is self defence. You are to kill someone who is threatening you even when they aren't intending it. If I am sitting in my front yard and I see an approaching vehicle, the driver of that vehicle is putting my life at risk. I know that because there have been many cases where vehicles have left roads and killed people who were not on the road. Therefore, using your analogy, I would be justified in killing the driver of the vehicle before he got close to my yard. Unlike gestation and birth, driving a vehicle is not a natural, live-giving process. If it was the only way to save yourself, yes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 20:11:37 GMT -6
I am sure most pregnant ladies think about the child within them. Indeed, I have seen some ladies write about why it is right to kill "parasitic blobs of flesh". Thats how they justify abortion
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 10:45:45 GMT -6
... anti DP, pro gun control, pro-choice. No apologies.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jan 28, 2013 16:02:23 GMT -6
... anti DP, pro gun control, pro-choice. No apologies. good to see you back WW Sent from my LS670 using proboards
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Jan 28, 2013 16:17:23 GMT -6
... anti DP, pro gun control, pro-choice. No apologies. good to see you back WW Sent from my LS670 using proboards Make that plus 2
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 17:18:46 GMT -6
pro gun control, doesn't mean anti gun
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jan 28, 2013 19:18:08 GMT -6
pro gun control, doesn't mean anti gun but it does mean more regulations and rules correct?
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Post by Californian on Jan 28, 2013 19:26:01 GMT -6
... anti DP, pro gun control, pro-choice. No apologies. Just couldn't stay away, could you? Admit it, you dig me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 3:40:31 GMT -6
I am sure most pregnant ladies think about the child within them. I think the main problem with the pro-choice view is that it doesn't hold human life as sacred. Often pro choices pride themselves on pragmatics, but you can argue thinks like money to rather perverse ends. For example one author in Australia argues parents should be able to euthanise infant children if they decide not to raise them. They make arguments because they infant hasn't developed a personality then it would be ok Killing a child is very different from having an abortion, who is this author??? . There are numerous authors who advocate such a position www.equip.org/articles/peter-singers-bold-defense-of-infanticide/Peter Singer - Advocates infanticide for infants <30 days old. The above is a christian article but it does reference sources written by Singer Himself from last year www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9113394/Killing-babies-no-different-from-abortion-experts-say.htmlThey argue exactly the opposite argument that you say.
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