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Post by Rev. Agave on Apr 26, 2011 14:07:25 GMT -6
Back OT though, would you agree with a policy that was proven to prevent more murders for the cost of executing one murderer? Like most things on the anti side of the fence, I admit it's a tough one to prove, but in principle? Might want to start another thread to deal with the recidivism issue, it's quite an interesting one. Almost every inmate (at least in my state) is offered the chance to earn a GED and/or a college degree or vocational certificate. Almost every inmate has access to substance abuse, anger management, and other forms of mental health counseling. Many inmates have the opportunity to participate in restorative justice and sex offender programs. All inmates have access to libraries and recreational facilities. All inmates have access to healthcare they might not get on the streets. All inmates have access to spiritual programing. In some facilities, they have music rooms, sports leagues, big screen TVs in the day room, and spacious outside rec yards with softball fields and basketball courts. They have indoor courts too, as well as weight rooms and computer labs. They might not have a sauna yet, but as you can see, they have quite a bit. What else would you have the state provide?
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Post by Felix2 on Apr 26, 2011 17:22:09 GMT -6
Back OT though, would you agree with a policy that was proven to prevent more murders for the cost of executing one murderer? Like most things on the anti side of the fence, I admit it's a tough one to prove, but in principle? Might want to start another thread to deal with the recidivism issue, it's quite an interesting one. Almost every inmate (at least in my state) is offered the chance to earn a GED and/or a college degree or vocational certificate. Almost every inmate has access to substance abuse, anger management, and other forms of mental health counseling. Many inmates have the opportunity to participate in restorative justice and sex offender programs. All inmates have access to libraries and recreational facilities. All inmates have access to healthcare they might not get on the streets. All inmates have access to spiritual programing. In some facilities, they have music rooms, sports leagues, big screen TVs in the day room, and spacious outside rec yards with softball fields and basketball courts. They have indoor courts too, as well as weight rooms and computer labs. They might not have a sauna yet, but as you can see, they have quite a bit. What else would you have the state provide? All sounds good on paper Erick, but tell him about the way you can have have any of the above activities interrupted so they can execute you?
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Post by Californian on Apr 26, 2011 18:44:00 GMT -6
Very few of those programs named are available to DR prisoners, Felix, and justifiably not.
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Post by Rev. Agave on Apr 26, 2011 19:56:08 GMT -6
Very few of those programs named are available to DR prisoners, Felix, and justifiably not. Very true. My point is that Fugly and Bronz seem to ignore the fact that by and large most inmates in the USA already have access to an array of rehabilitative tools. But as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water... What else can they ask for?
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Post by Californian on Apr 26, 2011 20:18:05 GMT -6
What else can they ask for? Scumpal sleepovers?
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Post by Matt on Apr 27, 2011 0:23:58 GMT -6
Back OT though, would you agree with a policy that was proven to prevent more murders for the cost of executing one murderer? Like most things on the anti side of the fence, I admit it's a tough one to prove, but in principle? We already pour billions into "social" programs in this country, yet the murder rates continue to climb, particularly among those groups of people most intended to benefit from said programs. I'm struggling to envision what kind of policy you might have in mind, even in theory. Also, under our current system of justice, I would agree that any notion of the death penalty being a deterrent to murder in America is a joke. We execute only a handful of condemned murderers, and by the time they are put to death, there are only a sad handful of people who remember why. There can be no possible correlation that would stand up to statistical scrutiny between the number of executions carried out and its effect upon the murder rate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2011 1:07:35 GMT -6
It's very true that you can lead a horse to water and see no drinking, as a rule I'm resignedly cynical that attempts at rehabilitation probably often feel like banging your head against a wall to those attempting it.
On the other hand, since 1980 the general standard of mental health care and medical treatment has improved significantly in US prisons. Between 1980 and 2002 the number of murders in state prisons has dropped by 90%. Looks like a long enough period to make a positive correlation, although better segregation of violent and non-violent offenders must play a role too.
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Post by Felix2 on Apr 27, 2011 2:09:39 GMT -6
Very few of those programs named are available to DR prisoners, Felix, and justifiably not. I know. Just trying to statrt an arguement!
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Post by arizonavet on Apr 27, 2011 7:10:19 GMT -6
I know it wasn't your quote, I messed up the quote process, my bad. Right, I'll break down the point a little. What fuglyville was saying was that if we could PREVENT more murders via social means, wouldn't that be money better spent than on shutting the stable door with the horse well in the distance? Are you saying that every person who kills another is an unrestrained psychopath who is bent purely on the destruction of life at their convenience? What fugly is proposing is to invest more at a grass roots level to remove the motivation for people to murder, by creating more equality of opportunity for example. And what I'm saying is that it would be interesting to see how much of a difference this investment would make against investing that same money on killing people after the crime has already taken place. What fugly is promoting is murderer worship. How about if we execute them all and see how many of them murder again. I would lay odds that this experiment would yield 100% no more murder from these murderers. See my experiment is better and safer for all innocent humans. Btw, there is no true test to diagnose a psycho. They are lying manipulating machines and I doubt that 2 shrinks would both agree, so before the experiment is begun. IT HAS FAILED. I know others would argue differently but are any of us willing to risk our lives or the lives of people you love. I'M NOT. Spot-on greggsmom... Never met a pseudointellectual "prison reformer" who didn't absolutly get "giddy" with excitement over the idea of turning over (worst of the worst murderers) to the "brilliant" psycologists & psychiatrists, instead of executing them, or even LWOP... No, it hasn't been "proven" at all.....just the opposite has been proven. Sadly, innocents (many times children) pay for this foolish idea. I've got another idea.....fire the worthless psychiatrists, hire more executioners!
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Post by ltdc on Apr 27, 2011 13:49:07 GMT -6
What fugly is promoting is murderer worship. How about if we execute them all and see how many of them murder again. I would lay odds that this experiment would yield 100% no more murder from these murderers. See my experiment is better and safer for all innocent humans. Btw, there is no true test to diagnose a psycho. They are lying manipulating machines and I doubt that 2 shrinks would both agree, so before the experiment is begun. IT HAS FAILED. I know others would argue differently but are any of us willing to risk our lives or the lives of people you love. I'M NOT. I've got another idea.....fire the worthless psychiatrists, hire more executioners! don't build more prisons, build more cemetaries
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Post by Rev. Agave on Apr 27, 2011 18:08:38 GMT -6
I've got another idea.....fire the worthless psychiatrists, hire more executioners! I don't see why they can't hire psychiatrists who moonlight as executioners. The shrink/executioner could conduct a psychological interview of the inmate, testify that the inmate is not retarded, and then personally juice the bastard when the time comes.
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Post by arizonavet on Apr 28, 2011 8:04:47 GMT -6
I've got another idea.....fire the worthless psychiatrists, hire more executioners! I don't see why they can't hire psychiatrists who moonlight as executioners. The shrink/executioner could conduct a psychological interview of the inmate, testify that the inmate is not retarded, and then personally juice the bastard when the time comes. Agave...it's been a while since I've had a real belly laugh....I'm STILL tearing at the eyes.... ;D I knew when it was presented that this thread would bring out the best humor in town. SHAME ON YOU GUYS (and Greggsmom)!!!!! Many of these "murderers" NEVER had even ONE red wagon as a child!!!! THERE....argue with THAT one....if you can!!!!
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Post by deathcub2000 on Apr 28, 2011 21:30:04 GMT -6
>> The gym and computer labs alone rival those in many public schools.
I looked at the earlier post of birthday wishes and after drilling down into some of the links, I was amazed at the number of web pages that the prisoners had.
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Post by Stormyweather on Apr 29, 2011 7:38:22 GMT -6
No, and why should someone who committed a violent crime get a free education? If they are high risk then I would guess a crime of violence landed them there in the first place. Why are you talking down to MVS? You talk as if they have a illness that needs to be treated? You really seem arrogant! Can you prove it doesn't deter anyone? Use it more and it will be a better one. But we would have to worry about more violent inmates getting out. It's interesting that you consider murderers escaping and murdering irrelevant. Like I said you're arrogant.
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Post by Stormyweather on Apr 29, 2011 7:40:29 GMT -6
What else can they ask for? Scumpal sleepovers?
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Post by arizonavet on Apr 29, 2011 11:59:57 GMT -6
Conjugal visits?....grrrrr I read a book (rage in the desert) written about Gary Tison, who escaped Arizona's Florence prison TWICE. His first escape was made when his wife, who kissed him in the court room, was believed to have slipped him a gun, which he used to murder his transporting guard. He was caught....then he escaped again & killed two families, including a todler.. when his SONS brought him shotguns in a "contact" prison visitation area. Many times between escapes, his scum-bag spouse & he openly groped each other, "happy endings & all" in the same visitation area as he later escaped from. When visiting families, with juveniles complained about the disgusting behavior, Tison threatened to kill the complainers spouse, in the prison...so they wisely shut up, and let it continue. NO conjugal visits....period...bad idea. Florence was known as a "cracker-box" to escape from in those days.... Tison was run to ground in the desert following a police road-block shootout...he died miserably, digging into the hot desert sand, as he died of thirst.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on May 10, 2011 16:04:29 GMT -6
New idea for an execution method: throw them in the desert and let them dehydrate to death.
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Post by arizonavet on May 23, 2011 10:40:10 GMT -6
New idea for an execution method: throw them in the desert and let them dehydrate to death. Xpixie.....meet Agaveman..... You both crack me up....very intertaining (sometimes shocking) posts Tison's sons, who helped him escape may not be dehydrating to death, but they do endure 120+ degree summers in Florence prison every year.... I would have put their mother in there with them....what a family!
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on May 25, 2011 3:15:25 GMT -6
Oh believe me. We have met. He gave me photos of the death chambers around the United States.
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Post by arizonavet on May 25, 2011 8:12:16 GMT -6
Oh believe me. We have met. He gave me photos of the death chambers around the United States. No doubt Agaveman considers me "soft-headed"... I definatly consider him a bit "goulish"..... But we're on the same side...I respect him....he's even made some "headway" with me, I very much enjoy the "history-executions" section, and his knowledge of "chemicals" & death chambers is notorius. Executions still give me the willies.....a horrible, but nessessary thing to do to another human being.
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