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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Jun 5, 2009 2:04:14 GMT -6
As somebody already stated, inmates have a long time to concentrate on escape and ways to make that escape happen. Desperation can furnish ingenious ways and it would be folly to think that we can be on top of these devious little weasels all the time. The prison staff must focus on getting everything run smoothly whilst the convict has only the one focus: escape. That gives them the advantage of being able to fine tune the plan.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 5, 2009 7:09:20 GMT -6
Shawni , how do you know they will kill again? Quite frankly as David said the prison warden has got some serious questions to answer because if they do kill again , he is responsible, he was in charge when they escaped. Cheeky clever bastards if you ask me, this is hollywood material, i can see a film coming on.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 5, 2009 7:29:11 GMT -6
How did they get the uniforms and how were they not missed, stock takes, how did they know who was on and when and what their responsisbilites were, how did they get through obviously tight security, cctv cameras must have been everywhere. Did they have keys and how did they get them. Timings of who was on, how did they know about rosters. To escape from a top security prison you have had to have had help, i can not accept that these people didnt have help on the inside or outside.
I understand your anger Shawni i do and im sorry oif you felt my response was out of order but there are serious questions that need to be answered here. I do think the wardens (governors) head will have to role and the responsibility lies with him/her for this failing, especially, god forbid they kill again. This beggers belief really.
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Post by suppenhuhn on Jun 5, 2009 8:09:05 GMT -6
Well i definitely won't blame prisoners for trying to escape, that's more or less their new full-time job. The point is that if your prison happens to make uniforms you might require more than just wearing one for people to enter or leave your facility. That no one watched the cctv while they changed is another issue, i bet that took them a bit longer than a second or two. Sure, there will always be ways to escape even from the highest security prisons but that isn't the point in this case as exactly what they did should have been anticipated and could have been prevented rather easily with an ID check upon leaving or entering the prison. do you have any idea how many cameras there are in a prison? I would imigan that the prisoners found someone who was not doing as they were trained and waited until they were on shift to take advantage of that. It is easy to say what should have been done after the fact but not so easy when you are there. I know that at my unit we have to touch the ID of every person who leaves the facility. This is a requirement and in the post orders, yet a good number of officers will simply wave at someone wearing an officers uniform during shift change. They figure that one of the other officers will notice if the person is not on shift with them. It is this kind of thing that an inmate will take advantage of. You do not have to make the uniforms, we leave them in a room to be taken (by inmates) and cleaned. It is easy to blame the prison and the officers involved and yes they may have gotten sloppy, it is what happens when you do the same job over and over again and again. It happens in all jobs, prisoners know this and look for those things to happen. You have lax security right there. Sure being a CO might not be the most exciting job all the time, nonetheless your policy of actually checking an ID is there for a reason and if people are just waved through then it's not human error but someone not doing his job. Figuring that someone else will do something is what gets people robbed in front of large audiences and is never an excuse for not doing what you're supposed to do. Don't you have people from the TDCJ checking that everything is done by the book from time to time? Also you could utilize fingerprint scanners and/or face recognition programs to automatically detect authorized people and give out warnings when someone tries to access areas he's not authorized for. Watching cameras that number in the hundreds will not stop many much since they would have to be watching that camera at that time to catch them. In the unit I work in we have 10 cell blocks with 8 cameras in each cell block, cameras in the food prepration area, cameras in the medical area, maintance areas, in the halls outside the cell blocks, and in any other area that a inmate might go in. I would guess at a minum 200 cameras just in the High Security area, and this is not to mention the ones in GP. Inmates know that it is a good bet that they can do something off of the cell blocks and not be seen by anyone, they also know that the camera can be used as evicence against them if they get caught. That is the main thing the cameras are used for, evidence. good luck on that whole making a prison escape proof thing. Ain't going to happen until you can do away with human error, and prisoners who can think and have time to implement a plan. Hasn't been done in the history of man and will not be done in the future, that is unless we make the moon a prison colony. Nowhere did i state that there are escape proof prisons but simply wearing a uniform and walking out is far from the cunning plan that should be required to do so.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 5, 2009 10:35:42 GMT -6
Super, i suspect that there was a little bit more to this escape that making off with a couple of uniforms and walking through a door. There has to be or other prisoners would have tried this way if it was that easy. Nope these scummers had help, they must have done.
I just hope that if they are this smart or smart enough to escape, then they would be smart enough to lay low and move only when its safe to do so. I just hope that they do get caught soon because i should image that unless they have help they would be quite desparate. If thats the case and these two are danegrous then i wouldnt be surprised if people got hurt.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Jun 5, 2009 10:43:51 GMT -6
They've been caught Lawrence mate. Thankfully nobody hurt.
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Post by lawrence on Jun 5, 2009 11:24:23 GMT -6
Well then all that ends well hey, i still think the bloody governor and those in a position od authority need to take stock and take responsibility. Im so glad it ended wll. thanks Steve.
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Post by D.E.E. on Jun 5, 2009 16:18:21 GMT -6
do you have any idea how many cameras there are in a prison? I would imigan that the prisoners found someone who was not doing as they were trained and waited until they were on shift to take advantage of that. It is easy to say what should have been done after the fact but not so easy when you are there. I know that at my unit we have to touch the ID of every person who leaves the facility. This is a requirement and in the post orders, yet a good number of officers will simply wave at someone wearing an officers uniform during shift change. They figure that one of the other officers will notice if the person is not on shift with them. It is this kind of thing that an inmate will take advantage of. You do not have to make the uniforms, we leave them in a room to be taken (by inmates) and cleaned. It is easy to blame the prison and the officers involved and yes they may have gotten sloppy, it is what happens when you do the same job over and over again and again. It happens in all jobs, prisoners know this and look for those things to happen. You have lax security right there. Sure being a CO might not be the most exciting job all the time, nonetheless your policy of actually checking an ID is there for a reason and if people are just waved through then it's not human error but someone not doing his job. Figuring that someone else will do something is what gets people robbed in front of large audiences and is never an excuse for not doing what you're supposed to do. Don't you have people from the TDCJ checking that everything is done by the book from time to time? Also you could utilize fingerprint scanners and/or face recognition programs to automatically detect authorized people and give out warnings when someone tries to access areas he's not authorized for. Watching cameras that number in the hundreds will not stop many much since they would have to be watching that camera at that time to catch them. In the unit I work in we have 10 cell blocks with 8 cameras in each cell block, cameras in the food prepration area, cameras in the medical area, maintance areas, in the halls outside the cell blocks, and in any other area that a inmate might go in. I would guess at a minum 200 cameras just in the High Security area, and this is not to mention the ones in GP. Inmates know that it is a good bet that they can do something off of the cell blocks and not be seen by anyone, they also know that the camera can be used as evicence against them if they get caught. That is the main thing the cameras are used for, evidence. good luck on that whole making a prison escape proof thing. Ain't going to happen until you can do away with human error, and prisoners who can think and have time to implement a plan. Hasn't been done in the history of man and will not be done in the future, that is unless we make the moon a prison colony. Nowhere did i state that there are escape proof prisons but simply wearing a uniform and walking out is far from the cunning plan that should be required to do so. It is the fact that human error will always play a part. Yes security gets lax as it does in any and every job that is until you can remove humans from the equation, that is and has been my point. The inmates only need to find a small chink in our armor where as we have to make sure there in no chink. Does not happen, but some people will blame the system not the inmate every time. Same with an officer getting assaulted it is the officers fault for not paying attention or the prisons fault for not having better security. No it is always the inmates fault. A plan does not have to be cunning to be successful in fact I would say the less to plan for the less to go wrong. As far as the face thing goes how do you do that when visitors come through the same gate the officers do? Wait I know a whole other gate, so more officers more security checks and more cameras. Sounds good; economic problems in the state too bad I am sure they will jump on it don't you.
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Post by D.E.E. on Jun 5, 2009 16:20:52 GMT -6
Super, i suspect that there was a little bit more to this escape that making off with a couple of uniforms and walking through a door. There has to be or other prisoners would have tried this way if it was that easy. Nope these scummers had help, they must have done. I just hope that if they are this smart or smart enough to escape, then they would be smart enough to lay low and move only when its safe to do so. I just hope that they do get caught soon because i should image that unless they have help they would be quite desparate. If thats the case and these two are danegrous then i wouldnt be surprised if people got hurt. Had an escape attempt in a unit in South Texas a while back where two inmates hid in a dumpster. Might have worked if the truck had been on time, but it was late and when count was short all movement was stopped including trash pick up.
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